00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:06.280
And then, right at the end, we saw this flash

00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:08.539
of light go off at the end of the circle like

00:00:08.539 --> 00:00:12.980
an old Polaroid flash bulb. And I said to the

00:00:12.980 --> 00:00:16.140
team leader, I said, I'm stuffed because my job,

00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:19.359
I'm in a profession where any whiff of naughtiness

00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:24.199
on the DBS, I've lost my job, all right? Because

00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.379
it's criminal damage, vandalism and trespass,

00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:31.339
no matter how pretty it is. and he said no don't

00:00:31.339 --> 00:00:34.460
worry about it and then this flash turned in

00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:36.060
because I thought it was somebody crouching down

00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.420
taking a picture like a journalist or something

00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:43.079
then I saw another flash then another flash and

00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:47.899
then these flashes went proliferated into loads

00:00:47.899 --> 00:00:51.299
and in my book I call it the biggest necklace

00:00:51.299 --> 00:00:54.299
in the world because these lights sprinkled around

00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:57.659
the edge of the formation on the perimeter line

00:00:58.810 --> 00:01:01.329
There was no, they weren't in depth, there wasn't

00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:04.189
like one behind the other, it was like a straight

00:01:04.189 --> 00:01:08.090
wall of them. And I just went to T, the leader,

00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:11.890
I nearly said the name, what the F in hell is

00:01:11.890 --> 00:01:15.689
that? And he went to me, look, he said, I've

00:01:15.689 --> 00:01:18.569
done hundreds of these things or you know, loads

00:01:18.569 --> 00:01:23.030
and loads. He says, if you keep doing this, which

00:01:23.030 --> 00:01:25.329
I think you're going to, you're gonna get used

00:01:25.329 --> 00:01:28.319
to this, this is just. path for the course de

00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:32.159
rigueur all this is is them telling us it's finished

00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:36.359
it's a nice bit of work if you do anything else

00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.120
to it like a painter not knowing them when the

00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.959
painting's finished if you do anything else you're

00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:58.780
going to mess it up it's time to go You're listening

00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:01.439
to Pursuit of the Paranormal Podcast with your

00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:08.659
hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson. Hey Ash,

00:02:08.659 --> 00:02:11.740
how are you doing? Hey Greg, very good, very

00:02:11.740 --> 00:02:18.900
good. We've just had a amazing chat with this

00:02:18.900 --> 00:02:24.439
week's guest. And yeah, we sort of mentioned

00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:26.759
it. Before we start, we would never really talked

00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.139
about this subject before for no real reason.

00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.180
It's just not caught up on the podcast between

00:02:32.180 --> 00:02:35.479
ourselves. We have. Yeah. But not on the podcast

00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.680
for never ever caught up for some reason. And

00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.719
I don't know why, because out of all the subjects,

00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.680
it should be something that we will have at least

00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:51.520
covered off. But we haven't. No, and weirdly

00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.150
don't even know the guy's name. The only time

00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:57.909
we have talked about it on the podcast was on

00:02:57.909 --> 00:03:02.750
a Facebook live stream. One time we showed, he

00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:06.530
showed, we showed a couple of clips. We're not

00:03:06.530 --> 00:03:08.610
really, that site looks like a 10 minute part

00:03:08.610 --> 00:03:10.669
of a two hour live stream. We were just mentioned.

00:03:12.030 --> 00:03:13.770
Um, we talked about it very briefly, but apart

00:03:13.770 --> 00:03:15.030
from that, we're not really talked to anybody

00:03:15.030 --> 00:03:17.909
else about it to, or in any depth, like we have

00:03:17.909 --> 00:03:21.129
just done now for this episode. And weirdly,

00:03:21.409 --> 00:03:24.229
we are actually, we're talking about it at the

00:03:24.229 --> 00:03:31.750
end of the season. I've been in Oxford this past

00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:36.789
weekend, down at yours. And I was looking at

00:03:36.789 --> 00:03:39.389
that, please be some still left, but it's just

00:03:39.389 --> 00:03:41.389
too late in the season. It's been a long summer,

00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:45.490
so all the crops have been took already. Yeah.

00:03:45.550 --> 00:03:49.259
And I think we were lucky. in Sarah a couple

00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:51.219
of weeks ago when she was down that we managed

00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:56.460
to get probably one of the last looks at some

00:03:56.460 --> 00:03:59.139
of the crop circles around. Oops, I've just slipped

00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:05.139
out. So we talked to a guy called Citizen D.

00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:12.219
Citizen D. About crop circles and his book that

00:04:12.219 --> 00:04:18.879
he's written following being part of Crop circle

00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:32.519
making team. Yeah. So without further ado, I

00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:36.259
will listen to citizen D and let us know what

00:04:36.259 --> 00:04:40.060
you think. Cause it's so he was, he was, he made

00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:42.860
crop circles and he knew lots of people that

00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:46.180
made crop circles over the past 25 odd years.

00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:50.480
Although he is saying they were made by humans,

00:04:51.060 --> 00:04:54.160
there's a lot more to it. It's not just that

00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:55.600
supposed to be all in and all. There's a lot

00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.740
more to it. Despite it being that him saying

00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:01.699
I made these crop circles or my friends made

00:05:01.699 --> 00:05:06.800
these crop circles. Yeah. It was, it was, it

00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.180
was definitely something I didn't see coming.

00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.160
And I say that on the podcast, I didn't see the

00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.639
angle of it coming. So definitely, definitely.

00:05:16.469 --> 00:05:24.170
So let's get a brew and enjoy Hey Dee, how are

00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:26.649
you? Thanks for joining us. That's an absolute

00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:28.389
pleasure guys been looking forward to hearing

00:05:28.389 --> 00:05:33.829
British voices on podcasts Dominated by the Americans,

00:05:33.889 --> 00:05:37.990
isn't it? So I've been super excited to speak

00:05:37.990 --> 00:05:40.709
to you since we first started exchanging emails

00:05:40.709 --> 00:05:46.470
about the topic tonight and it's As we were talking

00:05:46.470 --> 00:05:49.250
about offline, this is a subject that we haven't

00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:52.649
even touched. We're in our sixth year. We're

00:05:52.649 --> 00:05:56.310
approaching 400 episodes. We speak about everything

00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:00.569
paranormal, UAP, cryptids, everything in between

00:06:00.569 --> 00:06:05.069
past life regressions, demons, the lot. But we've

00:06:05.069 --> 00:06:07.810
never spoken about this subject and it's actually

00:06:07.810 --> 00:06:11.689
quite close to my heart. I live in Oxfordshire.

00:06:12.189 --> 00:06:15.040
I'm literally on the border of Wiltshire. Oh,

00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:19.040
cool. I've had an experience with this phenomena

00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:24.120
several years ago, which I'll come on to. Oh,

00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:29.360
it must have been 16 years ago. And then just

00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.779
a matter of a few weeks ago, me and my partner,

00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:36.939
we're online. She was down. She lives up north.

00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:41.279
She's coming down and she was like, let's go

00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.370
here. There's this thing here. And I'm like,

00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:47.290
yeah. So we've done a live stream from there.

00:06:47.389 --> 00:06:51.449
We found two that night. Uh, so I'm super excited

00:06:51.449 --> 00:06:54.949
to speak to somebody else about this particular

00:06:54.949 --> 00:07:00.790
thing. So tonight, Matthew, we are talking, we

00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:05.310
are going to be talking crop circles. And this

00:07:05.310 --> 00:07:12.050
is, this is one of those phenomena that We'll

00:07:12.050 --> 00:07:14.389
divide people. People say it's aliens. People

00:07:14.389 --> 00:07:19.930
say it's UFOs. People say it's manmade. Um, so

00:07:19.930 --> 00:07:21.509
hopefully tonight we're going to get to the bottom

00:07:21.509 --> 00:07:27.129
of some of that. So I'm so excited. Should we

00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:30.970
get in? Yeah, let's do it. So D, let us know

00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:33.970
how you got to where we are today. What is your

00:07:33.970 --> 00:07:37.910
origin story with this? Firstly, the reason why.

00:07:38.110 --> 00:07:40.769
I've used the pen name Citizen Dee on the book

00:07:40.769 --> 00:07:44.949
is because I'm a journalist and I'm quite an

00:07:44.949 --> 00:07:46.870
established author as well and I wanted to keep

00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:50.949
the name away from those parts of my life, literature

00:07:50.949 --> 00:07:56.689
-wise. Also, crop circle making is illegal, all

00:07:56.689 --> 00:08:00.689
right, but because I've gone through the book

00:08:00.689 --> 00:08:02.810
and I've changed all the locations or I've taken

00:08:02.810 --> 00:08:05.089
locations out, they can't do me on the statute

00:08:05.089 --> 00:08:09.899
of limitations. bingo um and also because the

00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:12.540
reason another reason for the pseudonym is because

00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:16.339
as soon as you come out and you say i've made

00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:19.160
crop circles a lot of people say oh he's just

00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:22.759
an egotist it's all about him blah blah blah

00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.680
so the reason why i put a pseudonym on the book

00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.300
was to say i want the stories to talk because

00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:33.049
it's the people that i've interviewed their stories

00:08:33.049 --> 00:08:34.990
that it's important it's the stories that are

00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:36.610
important the accounts that are important rather

00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:39.169
than the individuals all right so i hope that

00:08:39.169 --> 00:08:41.789
hopefully that clears it up as regards my origin

00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:45.070
story i'm guessing it's pretty similar to yours

00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:48.769
if you're doing a podcast that is this i have

00:08:48.769 --> 00:08:54.009
had a deep seated fascination borderline obsession

00:08:54.009 --> 00:08:56.950
but quite healthy obsession with the paranormal

00:08:56.950 --> 00:09:01.009
and ufology since i was about five okay i can't

00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:04.730
remember a time where i wasn't into it um when

00:09:04.730 --> 00:09:06.769
i saw close encounters as a kid when i was about

00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:09.309
11 it blew my head off i thought it was a documentary

00:09:09.309 --> 00:09:14.720
because i was a little boy um and I was into,

00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:16.940
I mean, I'm younger than you guys, but you probably

00:09:16.940 --> 00:09:19.059
don't remember. We had this magazine called The

00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:21.059
Unexplained and this come out as well as, you

00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:22.820
know, sort of things that come out every month

00:09:22.820 --> 00:09:25.159
that you collected it all out. And it was everything.

00:09:25.299 --> 00:09:29.000
It was cryptids, Loch Ness, Turing, shroud, ectoplasm,

00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:33.179
ghosts, everything, all right? So I was bang

00:09:33.179 --> 00:09:36.679
into it. But then I got really heavily into ufology.

00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:38.700
That's the bit that really started to interest

00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:42.779
me. I don't know why. I remember seeing the trend.

00:09:43.019 --> 00:09:46.740
the Trent Reich photograph and which is to me

00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:48.799
one of the best ones and thinking what's that

00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:53.720
I was absolutely engulfed in ufology and um again

00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:57.620
I'm younger than you but in my day in my day

00:09:57.620 --> 00:10:01.340
all we had we had no internet we had no AI there

00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:05.220
was no online no good all we had was the flying

00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:10.539
saucer of you we had um the bufora magazine we

00:10:10.539 --> 00:10:15.059
had the mufon magazine It was beautiful. No bickering.

00:10:15.659 --> 00:10:17.700
Absolutely. All you have was the literature.

00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.519
And my favourite authors were like Jenny Randall's

00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:25.139
and John Spencer and John Keele and Jacques Vaillet,

00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:27.779
who I think is the godfather of ufology. But

00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:30.799
then we had these UFO casebooks, guys. And what

00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:34.179
they did in the UFO casebooks is they let you

00:10:34.179 --> 00:10:39.080
know of UFO sightings worldwide. And Bryce Norton,

00:10:39.379 --> 00:10:46.929
hello. UFO sightings, new sightings, but also

00:10:46.929 --> 00:10:50.429
revisiting histories like Golf Breeze and Lonnie

00:10:50.429 --> 00:10:53.309
Zamora and Kelly Hopkinsville, all the classic,

00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:57.750
but Betty and Barney Hill. But they started to

00:10:57.750 --> 00:11:01.889
print these photographs of crop circles and they

00:11:01.889 --> 00:11:04.809
were really basic. All they were was like cookie

00:11:04.809 --> 00:11:09.549
cutter, single circles, which looked like they'd

00:11:09.549 --> 00:11:13.179
been, they looked like, a flying saucer had come

00:11:13.179 --> 00:11:16.700
down, landed, parked up and gone away again.

00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:20.840
They were just single circles and their precedent

00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.299
was the Australian Tully Nests which were also

00:11:24.299 --> 00:11:28.139
single circles but they were done in grass so

00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:29.879
they weren't as pronounced. When you see it in

00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.019
crop because the crop's high these things look

00:11:32.019 --> 00:11:36.539
really pronounced and they were presented as

00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:39.139
birth UFOs. That's what we all thought they were.

00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:45.759
And I became fascinated by that. And I lived

00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.860
in London at the time. I didn't realize how close

00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:54.120
Wiltshire was to London just on the M4. So when

00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.820
we started to see these, because you have the

00:11:57.820 --> 00:11:59.899
single circles and some of them had like four

00:11:59.899 --> 00:12:01.820
satellite circles around them. So they looked

00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.659
like sort of day of the year, still B -movie

00:12:04.659 --> 00:12:07.659
flying saucer with a landing gear on them. And

00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:10.460
then we started to progress to this bling stuff

00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:13.840
we had the lead sapling cover which was corridors

00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:19.340
door keys forks dumbbells at that point though

00:12:19.340 --> 00:12:22.799
and this is important at that point the connection

00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.860
between ufos and crop circles should have been

00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:30.940
divorced because no ufo looks like that especially

00:12:30.940 --> 00:12:33.019
aerodynamically it's not going to get very far

00:12:33.019 --> 00:12:39.600
so but what had happened was the connection was

00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:44.179
so ingrained that people went oh okay right they're

00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:48.279
not birth ufos anymore now let's make them uh

00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.100
let's make the message messages from our galactic

00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:54.200
space brothers you know and that transition for

00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.940
me was really clunky you know it's it really

00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:02.000
doesn't make any sense and i make a lot of a

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.580
lot of that in the book so that's where i came

00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:08.860
in and like you said I thought it was, even with

00:13:08.860 --> 00:13:11.740
the big images, with the big pictures, I thought

00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:17.080
it was Gaia, military testing, ET, time travelers,

00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.059
or Mother Earth, you know? So what I did one

00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:26.899
season, when I realized how close Wiltshire was

00:13:26.899 --> 00:13:28.759
to London, I thought, right, because I'd been

00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:31.480
visiting them off and on, sporadically, you know,

00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:33.399
taking time off work, getting down there, getting

00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:40.759
back. One year, I decided, right, I'm gonna take

00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:42.879
all of my holiday in one go. I'm gonna go out

00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.360
of Wiltshire for eight weeks. I'm gonna see if

00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.600
I can solve this, which is a pretty arrogant

00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.220
thing to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, get

00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:56.919
out of the way everybody. Anyway, we had a resource

00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:58.919
called the Crop Circle Connector, which I strongly

00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.620
recommend. That shows you where the circles are

00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.379
plotted, where they are. and the season kicks

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:07.899
off around April. It kicks off in that yucky

00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:11.120
yellow canola stuff. So the circles are pretty

00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.980
basic. When we get into June, July, then we've

00:14:14.980 --> 00:14:16.860
got the good stuff. We've got the mature in wheat

00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.840
and barley. That's when the good stuff happens.

00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.320
And then depending on how hot the summer's been,

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.240
the farmers cut them out and that's the end of

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.500
the season. I mean, because this season was so

00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:31.820
hot, the season was finished by July. And that's

00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:34.330
really worrying from a global warming point of

00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:38.169
view anyway so you'd see all these crop circles

00:14:38.169 --> 00:14:43.090
and if there'd be 10 and but you had an inkling

00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:44.870
or it was on the great vine that two were man

00:14:44.870 --> 00:14:47.990
-made I wasn't interested not bothered okay because

00:14:47.990 --> 00:14:52.389
I thought hoaxes I held hoaxes in the same contempt

00:14:52.389 --> 00:14:56.529
as a lot of people would think of me but because

00:14:56.529 --> 00:15:01.620
my feeling was this mystery it's like faking

00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:04.639
UFO stuff. This mystery is deep enough without

00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.659
these idiots coming in. And I used to equate

00:15:07.659 --> 00:15:09.620
it to the magicians with the cups under the balls.

00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.179
We'd say, right, okay, three balls, one cup,

00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.320
and then some idiot comes and adds another fork,

00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.299
you know, 10 cups, you know, three balls, one

00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:22.539
ball, 10, really, we held them into stain. But

00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:26.759
then I started to hear stories, apocryphal stories,

00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.470
normally second or third hand. From these human

00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:34.090
crop circle makers and they were reporting weird

00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:41.970
shit like orbs UAPs Massively intense synchronicities

00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:45.850
dream driven events People got people going to

00:15:45.850 --> 00:15:48.230
make a circle and other teams already done it

00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:52.149
that exact circle things like that and that started

00:15:52.149 --> 00:15:55.679
to intrigue me And I was overheard at the barge

00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:57.840
pub in Alton Barnes after I've been there a few

00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.019
weeks. And I said, I don't care how they get

00:16:00.019 --> 00:16:01.840
there anymore. I'm more concerned about what

00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.399
they do when they get there because of the power.

00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:06.320
Okay. And because probably the experience that

00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:12.679
you had. Um, so, uh, I got invited out. This

00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:14.019
bloke come up to me and says, look, we've been

00:16:14.019 --> 00:16:15.940
listening to you for the past few nights. We

00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:19.200
think you might be aligned. I had no idea. They

00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.950
were circle makers. They said, We think you might

00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.129
be aligned to what we're doing There's a crop

00:16:26.129 --> 00:16:28.549
circle. It's not been finished because in those

00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:31.350
days There was no drones a crop circle could

00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:35.090
remain unfinished. Okay for days sometimes because

00:16:35.090 --> 00:16:38.490
people say no human being could do that and that

00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:41.269
amount of time it's because Some of them are

00:16:41.269 --> 00:16:44.549
two or three stage events. Anyway, I Got invited

00:16:44.549 --> 00:16:49.250
out to make this circle team of 10 or 15 from

00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:51.509
memory three were American tourists that are

00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:53.870
over and they just got invited out because for

00:16:53.870 --> 00:16:57.289
the adventure and I found my missus and I said

00:16:57.289 --> 00:17:01.289
I've been invited to do a crop circle I'm gonna

00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:06.549
do it because to know the mystery to be inside

00:17:06.549 --> 00:17:10.069
the mystery is brilliant okay I think to know

00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:12.430
a mystery you should be in and out as close as

00:17:12.430 --> 00:17:15.569
you can to it I thought if I can be inside the

00:17:15.569 --> 00:17:20.240
mystery I can actually evaluate it with much

00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:26.000
more resolution and non bias, no confirmation

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.019
bias, absolutely objective which research should

00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:32.599
be. Anyway, but I promised her. I said, if nothing

00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:37.500
odd happens, that's it. I'm not interested. The

00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.240
hoaxes can do one. I'm just not interested. They're

00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.700
obviously you go to this, you know, big I am.

00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.920
Went to do this crop circle. with these American

00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.680
blokes in tow as well. Nothing happened. And

00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.759
I thought, right, waste of time. What a waste

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.619
of time. This has been, it's three in the morning.

00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.319
What a waste of a night. What a waste of time.

00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:04.700
And then right at the end, we saw this flash

00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:06.980
of light go off at the end of the circle, like

00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:11.420
an old Polaroid flash bulb. And I said to the

00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:14.559
team leader, I said, I'm stuffed because my job,

00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:17.799
I'm in a profession where any whiff of naughtiness

00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:22.200
on the DBS. I've lost my job. All right. This

00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.940
is because it's criminal damage, vandalism and

00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:29.180
trespass, no matter how pretty it is. And he

00:18:29.180 --> 00:18:31.779
said, No, don't worry about it. And then this

00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:33.700
flash turned in because I thought it was somebody

00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:36.140
crouching down taking a picture like a journalist

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:40.299
or something. Then I saw another flash, then

00:18:40.299 --> 00:18:44.099
another flash. And then these flashes went proliferated

00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:49.329
into loads. And in my book, I call it the biggest

00:18:49.329 --> 00:18:52.410
necklace in the world because these lights sprinkled

00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:55.509
around the edge of the formation on the perimeter

00:18:55.509 --> 00:18:59.569
line. There was no, they weren't in depth. There

00:18:59.569 --> 00:19:01.390
wasn't like one behind the other. It was like

00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:05.910
a straight wall of them. And I just went to T,

00:19:06.009 --> 00:19:09.470
the leader, I nearly said the name. What the

00:19:09.470 --> 00:19:13.829
F in hell is that? And he went to me, look, he

00:19:13.829 --> 00:19:16.390
said, I've done hundreds of these things or you

00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:20.690
know, loads and loads. He says, if you keep doing

00:19:20.690 --> 00:19:23.250
this, which I think you're going to, you're going

00:19:23.250 --> 00:19:26.210
to get used to this. This is just par for the

00:19:26.210 --> 00:19:29.089
course de rigueur. All this is, is them telling

00:19:29.089 --> 00:19:33.630
us it's finished. It's a nice bit of work. If

00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:36.690
you do anything else to it, like a painter, not

00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:38.609
knowing when the painting's finished, if you

00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:40.269
do anything else, you're going to mess it up.

00:19:40.569 --> 00:19:44.190
It's time to go. and he looked up and he went

00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:46.849
all right we've done our work now you go and

00:19:46.849 --> 00:19:50.730
do yours now what he meant by that was that for

00:19:50.730 --> 00:19:53.890
as long as you're in the circle it's yours second

00:19:53.890 --> 00:19:55.950
you leave it it doesn't belong to you anymore

00:19:55.950 --> 00:20:00.009
and he said okay we're off now go and do your

00:20:00.009 --> 00:20:02.509
work and the second he said that every light

00:20:02.509 --> 00:20:04.509
the whole thing went off like somebody had switched

00:20:04.509 --> 00:20:08.630
off a bathroom light and at that point i went

00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:11.650
all right there's something going on So that

00:20:11.650 --> 00:20:13.750
was the start of my journey. But if that hadn't

00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:16.890
happened, I wouldn't have done anything else.

00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:19.349
The book wouldn't exist. I'd have walked away.

00:20:19.950 --> 00:20:23.029
But that was the one where I went, what the effing...

00:20:23.029 --> 00:20:26.569
And he was so blasé about it, you know? Because

00:20:26.569 --> 00:20:32.349
it was so common to him, you know? And that supported

00:20:32.349 --> 00:20:37.950
history of how I became involved. So... Let me...

00:20:37.950 --> 00:20:42.019
Let me rephrase this. So... So when was this?

00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.019
How, what sort of year are we talking about?

00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:47.319
20 years, 25 years ago. Something like that.

00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:51.819
So these circles, um, so this in, in particularly

00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:54.359
this one, but these circles are manmade, but

00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.339
the, the others that wherever they are, I sort

00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:00.299
of supervise monitoring it, sort of watching

00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:03.380
it being done and then sort of saying, yeah,

00:21:03.380 --> 00:21:07.640
this is good enough. Yeah. There was, um, another

00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.230
team that I knew that had been They got freaked

00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:12.990
out in the circle. They were just about to start

00:21:12.990 --> 00:21:15.369
making it and they all had this really horrible,

00:21:15.410 --> 00:21:19.589
really horrible, petrified feeling, really foreboding.

00:21:19.730 --> 00:21:22.430
You know, when you think something's, nothing's

00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:24.250
happened yet, but something's about to happen.

00:21:24.269 --> 00:21:27.930
They were petrified, all petrified at the same

00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:31.589
time. And they'd started this circle, just drawn

00:21:31.589 --> 00:21:34.390
a little bit of a line, nothing much. And they

00:21:34.390 --> 00:21:37.190
scarpered as one without talking to each other.

00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:40.089
they all became freaked out at the same time

00:21:40.089 --> 00:21:43.450
and scarpered out and they said that when we

00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:47.990
looked behind us we saw these orbs in like this

00:21:47.990 --> 00:21:52.190
scale electrics figure eight formation auditing

00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:55.349
what we'd done you know swooping over it as if

00:21:55.349 --> 00:22:00.690
like a compliance department you know so that's

00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:03.109
another example of what you've just said yeah

00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:10.140
so at that point Did you have an idea? And that

00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:12.079
may have changed over the years, but at that

00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.759
point, did you have any idea as to what they

00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:19.059
were, who they were? No, absolutely none. And

00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:22.859
I still don't know to this day. And this is something

00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.220
I need to tell you. I was never a Premier League.

00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.740
I was never in the Premier League as a circle

00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:30.519
maker. When I made that first one, you just what's

00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.259
called a stomp trooper. They allocate, they take

00:22:33.259 --> 00:22:36.539
an hour to measure it out. So an inch on, you

00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:38.839
know, they use the old helix math sets with the,

00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:40.700
with the, with the compass and the set square,

00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:45.240
you know, um, so a centimeter on the paper is

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.859
a few foot in the field. Okay. So I had no idea

00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:50.359
what I was doing. He just said to me board between

00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.279
the lines. You'll know what you'll know. You

00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.160
won't know what you're doing until you see it

00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:00.970
online tomorrow. Okay. Um, So I led a couple

00:23:00.970 --> 00:23:03.509
of teams, but I was never in the Premier League.

00:23:04.049 --> 00:23:06.170
But the reason why I'm perfectly placed to write

00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:08.829
this book is because I'm a journalist and I'm

00:23:08.829 --> 00:23:11.150
an author. And like the circle makers said to

00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:13.490
me, some of them said, you know, it's about time

00:23:13.490 --> 00:23:15.789
our voices were heard now. And we kind of think

00:23:15.789 --> 00:23:18.630
if you're not too busy, you might be the bloke

00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:23.170
to do it, you know? But that's not to say, as

00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:25.049
I said, I went in as a believer. I thought it

00:23:25.049 --> 00:23:30.650
was all ET. If you're in your to be to be objective,

00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.670
you've got to have your mind be prepared to have

00:23:33.670 --> 00:23:36.069
your mind changed at any time. And I'm prepared

00:23:36.069 --> 00:23:40.710
to have my mind changed at any time. OK, so if

00:23:40.710 --> 00:23:42.430
you want to be of the minds where you want to

00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:45.089
think, well, some might be manmade with this

00:23:45.089 --> 00:23:47.589
weird stuff happening, but I'd like to concede

00:23:47.589 --> 00:23:50.589
that others aren't. OK, I'd say there's room

00:23:50.589 --> 00:23:53.190
in the boat. Alright because I might change my

00:23:53.190 --> 00:23:56.589
mind back to that tomorrow, you know But watch

00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:59.690
what I'm trying to convey is that there's something

00:23:59.690 --> 00:24:03.349
really odd going on When people are going out

00:24:03.349 --> 00:24:06.390
making crop circles not all the time for your

00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:09.569
50 % of the time Sometimes you'll make a circle

00:24:09.569 --> 00:24:11.990
and think nothing happened and then and then

00:24:11.990 --> 00:24:15.450
the internet will tell you the next day a relevance

00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:18.039
to that circle that there's no way that you'd

00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:19.740
have known how important it was when you did

00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:22.299
it but it turns out it's like when we had these

00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:25.700
Salisbury poisonings somebody made a crop circle

00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:28.759
the night before which was like one of those

00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:31.380
um hazardous poison signs you know that you see

00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:36.019
and yeah and obviously he had no idea what the

00:24:36.019 --> 00:24:39.480
relevance was of that you know so we think there's

00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.819
we think there's something else we think there's

00:24:42.819 --> 00:24:45.650
something else at play here It's interesting

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:50.150
you say about like the these things were there

00:24:50.150 --> 00:24:52.470
at the time because that's not even a possibility

00:24:52.470 --> 00:24:54.829
that I'd even thought about. I was on the fence

00:24:54.829 --> 00:24:58.890
like it's either it's either man -made or it's

00:24:58.890 --> 00:25:04.809
not man -made. I didn't even in my head even

00:25:04.809 --> 00:25:09.390
contemplate that it could be man -made with something

00:25:09.390 --> 00:25:14.529
else observing, advising to it. to a certain

00:25:14.529 --> 00:25:18.849
extent obviously advising yeah but i've been

00:25:18.849 --> 00:25:23.170
i've been in there was one called the jellyfish

00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:26.809
it was a fucking huge thing it's about 100 foot

00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:29.769
long 200 foot long can i just before you go ahead

00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:33.710
can i just melt your brain a little bit i'll

00:25:33.710 --> 00:25:37.289
melt your brain afterwards as well i know i 100

00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:42.289
know who did that okay cool but this might time

00:25:42.289 --> 00:25:46.150
this is the thing If you have something strange

00:25:46.150 --> 00:25:49.269
or magical going on in a Krebs circle, a lot

00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:52.769
of people's belief is something crazy happened,

00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:55.809
something magical happened, that means it can't

00:25:55.809 --> 00:25:58.710
be man -made, okay? But what happened with that

00:25:58.710 --> 00:26:02.710
jellyfish, as you know, that it's a really strange

00:26:02.710 --> 00:26:05.089
design. There's never been anything like that

00:26:05.089 --> 00:26:09.470
before or since, okay? Now, when my mate made

00:26:09.470 --> 00:26:15.960
that circle, he had a stand -up row with another

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:21.880
team. Unrelated to his team. And one or the other,

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:24.579
it was either my mate, anyway, they were squabbling.

00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:28.420
Somebody said, that's my design. I was putting

00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:32.279
that down next week. How did you get my design?

00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:36.460
And that's like, not like a gangster sit down,

00:26:36.460 --> 00:26:39.039
but you know, it was like. Where did you get

00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:41.440
it from? Who told you? I've already drawn this

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.980
out and given it to the team. We're set to do

00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:46.740
this. How have you beaten me to this design?

00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:50.119
It's exactly the same. And they had a discussion

00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:53.059
and it turned out that they were both independently

00:26:53.059 --> 00:26:55.920
inspired to do it. So it's a question of who

00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.220
got their foot. It was in the ether. You know,

00:26:59.299 --> 00:27:01.539
it was in the Google Cloud. It was a question

00:27:01.539 --> 00:27:04.819
of who got there first. So that was a very special

00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:12.380
formation. Yeah. So So ash, you know Wayland

00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:16.200
smithy where we went to It's just out the right

00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.619
circles there. Yeah, it was just out the back

00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:21.700
of of Wayland smithy So it's that sort of area

00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:25.480
by by Whitehorse Hill. I've seen one at the foot

00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:28.279
of Whitehorse Hill I've been in one there and

00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:31.059
I'll explain about my experience in there because

00:27:31.059 --> 00:27:34.980
that was unlike any others, but the the jellyfish

00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:39.859
one I went in there It took a while to find it

00:27:39.859 --> 00:27:43.099
and I didn't know where it was. This was on the

00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:47.980
verge of mobile Google Maps type thing. It was

00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:52.480
very, very early days of using a phone to try

00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:53.980
and figure out where you were going with a sat

00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:57.220
-nav. It was very odd. And it was just like we

00:27:57.220 --> 00:27:59.519
did about it. It was Wayland Smith. We only knew

00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:04.099
it was Wayland Smith. It didn't even know where

00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:09.109
it was. So we found it. Somehow we found it and

00:28:09.109 --> 00:28:12.829
I've got photos of me in it. Um, I'm trying to

00:28:12.829 --> 00:28:18.849
think of the time. It must've been 2009 sort

00:28:18.849 --> 00:28:23.730
of time. My youngest daughter, she wasn't walking.

00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:26.609
I don't think she's 18 now, so it must be, must

00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:30.049
be around that sort of 15, 16 years ago. And

00:28:30.049 --> 00:28:33.859
in there, it just felt weird. We got into the

00:28:33.859 --> 00:28:36.619
top, so the head of the jellyfish. A mushroom

00:28:36.619 --> 00:28:39.559
thing. Yeah, that sort of weird bit at the top,

00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:45.140
the actual jellyfish bit. Yeah, we were in there

00:28:45.140 --> 00:28:48.579
and it did feel a bit weird. I'm not going to

00:28:48.579 --> 00:28:51.519
lie. There was somebody that was trying to charge

00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:54.160
her crystals at the time, trying to find the

00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:57.599
jellyfish. And at that point, I didn't know much

00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:01.200
about crystals and crystal healing and charging.

00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.079
crystals and that's why I just thought I was

00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.180
a bit a bit mad at that point how my life has

00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:16.079
changed but um no immeasurably um but finding

00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:19.220
that crop circle seeing it and being able to

00:29:19.220 --> 00:29:22.660
experience the the enormity of the fucking thing

00:29:22.660 --> 00:29:26.000
I'm not gonna lie was mad I look at I tell people

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.700
though I've been to a crop circle I look like

00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:30.240
a jellyfish people are like what I think you

00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.319
can Google it and it's just this huge. It was

00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:35.839
massive. I think it was, I said there's about

00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:38.599
a hundred foot. I think it's about 300 foot long.

00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:42.460
It's phenomenal sizing. I always go from the

00:29:42.460 --> 00:29:45.720
tram lines, how many tram lines it covers. I

00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.819
don't even know. It was just huge. I think it

00:29:49.819 --> 00:29:52.000
made the Daily Mail that one. Yeah, it was all

00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.380
over. It's all over. You Google it now and it's

00:29:54.380 --> 00:29:58.799
still one of those things. But then I went to

00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.980
another one at the bottom of Whitehorse Hill.

00:30:01.619 --> 00:30:05.380
Which Whitehorse? So, Uffington Whitehorse. Oh,

00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:12.940
Uffington, the XTC cover. Yeah, yeah. So, me

00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:16.000
and Ash have been up to Weyland Smivy, which

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.180
is, we've been to the burial tomb there, the

00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:23.920
Longbarrow there. We go to Longbarrows and stuff

00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:28.660
like that in Avebury and whatnot. So we park

00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:32.720
at Whitehorse Hill and walk across. I I went

00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.940
down to this particular crop circle That you

00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:37.960
could see from the top go down. There was there

00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.539
was a few people in there. It was quite a popular

00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:45.359
crop circle My my ex Didn't want to go in there.

00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.759
So I was like I'm going in now. I'm gonna take

00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.380
a few photos Well, not just now. I need to get

00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:51.759
in there. I'll try another look and I got in

00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.680
there and I've never seen anything so weird in

00:30:53.680 --> 00:31:01.740
my life Excuse me crops. I've got some wheat

00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:04.400
from the crop circle from the other day, where

00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.460
it's sort of bent over, pressed over, but this

00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:12.240
particular one wasn't pressed over that I could

00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:16.400
see. It looked like, so it was, it got a tiny

00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.380
bit like this. So anybody who's just audio in

00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:21.819
this rather than video, it was about, it was

00:31:21.819 --> 00:31:25.059
about two centimeters and then it had flattened

00:31:25.059 --> 00:31:28.529
over. but instead of being flattened down there

00:31:28.529 --> 00:31:35.009
was a nodule of crop in like a a ball shape and

00:31:35.009 --> 00:31:37.410
the thing was at a right angle so it looked like

00:31:37.410 --> 00:31:42.970
it fused at a right angle it wasn't pressed down

00:31:42.970 --> 00:31:48.730
from what i could tell it was actually like fused

00:31:48.730 --> 00:31:51.589
it was that was the shape of the crop like a

00:31:51.589 --> 00:31:55.759
weird L shape Well, there's been papers on that,

00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:00.359
all right? There was a paper done back in the

00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:05.680
90s by Burke, Levengood and Talbot about this,

00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:11.599
and they bought in an outside consultant who

00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:13.960
was a crop scientist who's a friend of mine,

00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:18.420
okay? And they hadn't taken into account what's

00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:21.880
called phototropism. Now, what that means is

00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:27.089
that When you were there, the sun's been baking

00:32:27.089 --> 00:32:29.589
it all day, all right? So it's like straw, it's

00:32:29.589 --> 00:32:34.430
really brittle, okay? But when the crop is flattened

00:32:34.430 --> 00:32:38.150
over in the evening, night, because you can't

00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:40.269
start before 10 in the summer months because

00:32:40.269 --> 00:32:43.029
otherwise you'll be, listen, it's not dark enough.

00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:46.289
So it's very moist so that the crop does tend

00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:49.720
to... bend over rather than be broken but the

00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.259
next day if you were to walk into it as a tourist

00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:55.059
you'll probably break it so a lot of people say

00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:57.500
well you can say you can tell that's a man -made

00:32:57.500 --> 00:32:59.940
formation because it's all bent and there's muddy

00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:02.880
footprints everywhere they're confusing that

00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:04.960
with being the actual circle making team it's

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.319
actually the people that have been in there since

00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:11.279
okay because a crop circle is like CSI Because

00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.319
it is criminal damage, but it's also see a sign

00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.279
that if you don't get there within 24 hours of

00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.460
the crime being committed It's going to be contaminated.

00:33:18.819 --> 00:33:23.299
Okay. So what you saw there is likely to be phototropism

00:33:23.299 --> 00:33:27.299
because what happens when that Plant is bent

00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:34.119
over at night It's still alive Okay So its tendency

00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:38.279
in the sunshine is to reach back up towards the

00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.859
light Okay, and that is what you're seeing there.

00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.279
Okay, because there's an ox Look this stuff up.

00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:51.640
Okay, but it's phototropism And people say well

00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:55.480
bent not broken is proof of a non -made fan formation.

00:33:55.539 --> 00:34:01.200
I was hoping it was Yeah, yeah Well, I still

00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.019
think some of those early ones I think some of

00:34:05.019 --> 00:34:07.720
them I can't explain them but here's a bit of

00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:11.420
hope for you as I said if you want to believe

00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:16.559
they're still it's fine my my my whole my sort

00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.099
of crusade if you like is just to let you know

00:34:19.099 --> 00:34:21.019
that there's something weird going on with with

00:34:21.019 --> 00:34:24.139
man -made ones and don't don't write us off as

00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:25.980
hoaxsters because a lot of people are quite spiritual

00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:28.380
that do this there's weird shit going on there's

00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:32.260
weird shit going on yeah okay but We've had instances

00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:34.440
that will really, there's a couple of stories

00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:38.059
I've got in the book. Didn't happen to me, these

00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:41.480
happen to other people. They've got their designs

00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:45.719
out. So contrary to what people think, when a

00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:48.219
crop circle team do a design, it's not them all

00:34:48.219 --> 00:34:50.219
at a committee. There's normally one bloke's

00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:51.980
done it and he's gone, right, this is mine, we'll

00:34:51.980 --> 00:34:53.920
do mine this week, we'll do yours next week,

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:56.840
all right? Or they'll just sit down and say,

00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.170
which ones you wanna do, okay? And there was

00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:02.809
one team and they were debating whether to put

00:35:02.809 --> 00:35:05.329
an extra circle in it. They said, I want an extra

00:35:05.329 --> 00:35:07.449
circle there because it rounds it off. And the

00:35:07.449 --> 00:35:09.849
other one went, no, but I like the fact that

00:35:09.849 --> 00:35:11.809
it's not round off. It makes it quite quiet.

00:35:11.849 --> 00:35:14.289
And there was a big argument about it. All right.

00:35:14.869 --> 00:35:16.550
And they did it without it. They did it without

00:35:16.550 --> 00:35:21.369
this circle. And the next morning they went into

00:35:21.369 --> 00:35:24.130
it with all the tourists and that circle, that

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.690
extra circle was in it and they hadn't done it.

00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:30.900
Okay. So. You could allege that a team's coming

00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:33.219
after them at three in the morning. That's very,

00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:36.679
very unlikely. But we've got that whole intent

00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:41.019
thing where because it's been discussed and it's

00:35:41.019 --> 00:35:46.659
in the ether, it's happened. I know of cases

00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:49.679
where people have been in a crop circle and there's

00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.000
been an addition occur in that crop circle, which

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.420
wasn't there when they've gone in it, but it's

00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:59.260
there when they've left it. So there is something

00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:03.199
really strange going on, you know, and there

00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.599
are circles we can't explain because we don't

00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:09.139
know who's done them. So there is hope, you know,

00:36:09.500 --> 00:36:12.460
you know, I just it's not a black and white phenomenon.

00:36:12.579 --> 00:36:14.380
It's a gray phenomenon. If you've heard the pun,

00:36:14.420 --> 00:36:18.099
if you want to think that some on. There's wrong

00:36:18.099 --> 00:36:20.340
on the boat, I could go back to that next week.

00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:23.780
You know, if you're completely objective, you've

00:36:23.780 --> 00:36:25.900
got to look at it from every from every angle,

00:36:25.900 --> 00:36:28.710
you know. But when I, when I got involved and

00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:32.869
I thought, how can people possibly do this? You've

00:36:32.869 --> 00:36:35.869
got a team of 20 people or up to 20 people. They've

00:36:35.869 --> 00:36:38.489
had between September and March to plan it because

00:36:38.489 --> 00:36:42.010
that's off season and they're professionals.

00:36:42.010 --> 00:36:44.010
They said they're not being paid. They're all

00:36:44.010 --> 00:36:49.590
absolute brilliant artists, you know? Um, so

00:36:49.590 --> 00:36:53.630
that's where we are. Yeah. So kind of taking

00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:57.639
it back a little bit. Can you explain how you

00:36:57.639 --> 00:36:59.400
made it? You mentioned boarding and stuff is

00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.400
I mean people think it's guys literally with

00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.360
a Piece of plywood and some rope. How are these

00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:09.179
circles actually made by by the makers? Well,

00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:12.739
if you've got we generally use the tram line

00:37:12.739 --> 00:37:16.840
for the center point because It's soil, you know,

00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:19.900
it's it's it because if you if you try and sometimes

00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:23.039
if you try and do the tram The center point in

00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:27.170
the crop as you're moving around it's going to

00:37:27.170 --> 00:37:29.530
be a pretty hard to it's all flat it's pretty

00:37:29.530 --> 00:37:33.809
hard to disguise so um very basically somebody

00:37:33.809 --> 00:37:38.389
stands in the middle if you want a 100 foot circle

00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:41.769
going to do a little one you spread the tape

00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:45.110
out somebody takes the tape or they take rope

00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:47.869
and the rope has got gaffer tape on it with the

00:37:47.869 --> 00:37:53.679
measurements okay they step out You've got to

00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:55.400
keep it tight all the time, otherwise it's going

00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:58.820
to be wonky. You keep it tight, you measure out

00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:00.699
to 50 foot, and you look for the bit of gaffer

00:38:00.699 --> 00:38:01.800
tape on your rope, which you've already done

00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.880
at home, or you've got tape, and you just crab

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.679
step. You crab step round, okay? And then, even

00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.059
though it's done in pitch black, your eyes get

00:38:14.059 --> 00:38:16.300
really accustomed very, very quickly to the dark,

00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:19.900
okay? by the time you parked up and walked into

00:38:19.900 --> 00:38:22.639
the fields you're looking at 10 minutes or 15

00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.840
minutes sometimes anyway so as soon as that crop

00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.300
has been flattened it looks darker than the rest

00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:34.739
okay so you go around once you've got that circle

00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:37.340
that's your playground because once you've got

00:38:37.340 --> 00:38:40.380
the circle down as you know with any sacred ancient

00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:44.510
geometry that is your starting point Okay, and

00:38:44.510 --> 00:38:46.889
then it's just maths after that and I didn't

00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:48.969
know what I didn't know how they did straight

00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:50.690
lines because I couldn't work that out Would

00:38:50.690 --> 00:38:53.769
you do a straight line then they I saw it being

00:38:53.769 --> 00:38:58.449
done. You've got Two guys with the rope or the

00:38:58.449 --> 00:39:01.090
tape and the third guy just shoulders his way

00:39:01.090 --> 00:39:06.050
across Okay, and then you board that bit And

00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:09.269
once you've boarded it any wonky bits are just

00:39:09.269 --> 00:39:13.349
ironed out, you know But as I said to you, I

00:39:13.349 --> 00:39:16.690
was never a Premier League, all right? A lot

00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:19.750
of the stuff I did only had a few straight lines

00:39:19.750 --> 00:39:25.010
in them. But it is possible. People say it's

00:39:25.010 --> 00:39:27.150
not possible. One of the corrupt circle -makers

00:39:27.150 --> 00:39:31.710
that I said this to, he says, human beings are

00:39:31.710 --> 00:39:34.809
just incredible creatures. I don't mean circle

00:39:34.809 --> 00:39:38.329
-makers, I mean humanity. You can put your mind

00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:43.230
to anything. you know and we do have this tendency

00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:49.489
within the movement to say well we're suppressed

00:39:49.489 --> 00:39:54.570
we're multi -dimensional we can do anything we've

00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:56.909
got untapped potential maybe it's been kicked

00:39:56.909 --> 00:40:01.090
out of us by the elites and yet you say to them

00:40:01.090 --> 00:40:03.969
yeah but you just said we can't make crop circles

00:40:03.969 --> 00:40:06.769
we're capable of anything we're capable of making

00:40:06.769 --> 00:40:13.349
crop circles you understand I think it's absolutely

00:40:13.349 --> 00:40:19.989
fascinating topic anyway. And I never did I think

00:40:19.989 --> 00:40:23.110
we would be speaking to somebody who has intimate

00:40:23.110 --> 00:40:30.130
knowledge of crop circle making. So these guys

00:40:30.130 --> 00:40:33.010
and the teams that you've been involved with,

00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:36.769
you said they've got the off season, so they're

00:40:36.769 --> 00:40:40.559
planning and typically Like you mentioned, the

00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:43.619
crop circle season starts early summer, goes

00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:48.280
on to whenever. April, May, depending on how

00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:54.920
the weather's going. Absolutely, yeah. So they're

00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:57.840
obviously planning it. You can't really practice

00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.960
it, can you? This is a fantastic point. I'm glad

00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:03.219
you mentioned it because I'd have forgotten.

00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.559
Training. How do they train for it? No, this

00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:13.480
is key. Really important. People say you can

00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:17.500
always tell the genuine crop circles from the

00:41:17.500 --> 00:41:21.960
hoaxed crop circles because they're wonky, rubbish,

00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:27.320
mess. It's a mess. But this is the thing. If

00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.380
you're in a rock and roll band, all right, and

00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:32.940
you're rubbish, like Bill and Ted, if you're

00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:37.460
in a rubbish band, you can tighten up You can

00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:39.639
rehearse in your audience basement. No one's

00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.019
gonna hear how crap you are. You go and do your

00:41:42.019 --> 00:41:43.880
first gig when you're ready. Could be six months,

00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:48.059
could be a year. New crop circle teams that don't

00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:51.860
have a mentor or somebody guiding them do not

00:41:51.860 --> 00:41:55.260
have that luxury. So they will be making junk,

00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:59.360
okay, until they get good with repetition, okay?

00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:02.340
But a lot of people would tell you, well, the

00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.260
wonky ones are the human ones and the great ones,

00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:09.559
are the alien ones. No, the great ones are the

00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:12.320
people that have been doing it for years, all

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.860
right? The wonky ones are the people that are

00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:18.179
starting out. And a crop circle maker said to

00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:21.380
me, it's like dentistry with a machete. They've

00:42:21.380 --> 00:42:27.059
got no idea what they're doing. And that pretty

00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:31.039
much is vandalism. They trash the fields. But

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.679
certain elements of the community will say, They're

00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:36.440
the main main ones. They're rubbish. They're

00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:38.659
the brilliant ones. The brilliant ones are just

00:42:38.659 --> 00:42:42.539
the the pros, you know, although it's a misnomer

00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:43.980
because no one's getting paid unless they do

00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:47.239
commission. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a really

00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:51.559
important point. With regards to you mentioned

00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:53.460
people have been doing it for years. Some people

00:42:53.460 --> 00:43:00.030
are newbies. Is there like a hierarchy? No, I

00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:02.909
got asked this on Saturday because people, when

00:43:02.909 --> 00:43:05.230
I did this podcast on Saturday, it was an American

00:43:05.230 --> 00:43:08.829
Blake and he was like saying, this man has infiltrated

00:43:08.829 --> 00:43:14.190
the cabal. No, no, no. I'd say the only thing

00:43:14.190 --> 00:43:17.409
that a lot of us have got in common is that we're

00:43:17.409 --> 00:43:21.039
spiritually drawn to it. example of Roy Neary

00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:23.639
in Devil's Tower you know a lot of people are

00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:26.019
compelled to do this and they don't necessarily

00:43:26.019 --> 00:43:31.099
know why okay um but there's no hierarchy people

00:43:31.099 --> 00:43:35.039
get old they they drop off but the people that

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.170
they've trained Form their own teams and then

00:43:38.170 --> 00:43:40.730
it goes on and on some people come out of retirement

00:43:40.730 --> 00:43:42.610
I'm pretty sure there's a team come out of retirement

00:43:42.610 --> 00:43:45.349
this year because you get to know sometimes what

00:43:45.349 --> 00:43:47.849
their tropes are like Banksy or like graffiti

00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:51.269
artists You get to see their tags you go. Well,

00:43:51.429 --> 00:43:55.449
that is synonymous of what T used to do So either

00:43:55.449 --> 00:43:59.590
that's T or it's people that he's trained Okay,

00:43:59.889 --> 00:44:02.150
but I was asked the other day how many crop circle

00:44:02.150 --> 00:44:05.210
makers you think there's been in history? thousands

00:44:05.659 --> 00:44:08.000
Because you've got like the three American guys

00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.340
joining the team. It's a revolt. It's a rotating

00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:14.659
personnel. It's a revolving door But there's

00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:19.019
no Freemasons lodges or cabal or it's there's

00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:21.900
no there's no camaraderie. You don't know everybody

00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:27.739
else You know It's a myth that you know, this

00:44:27.739 --> 00:44:30.960
is people It's weird you said about Freemason

00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.159
Lodge. We were at one last, just over a week

00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:35.320
ago, me and Ash. And what were you doing there?

00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:39.579
An investigation into weird shit that happens

00:44:39.579 --> 00:44:44.900
at a Freemason Lodge in Lancashire. I've got

00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:46.639
an interest in that. So what happened? Yeah,

00:44:46.659 --> 00:44:52.760
let's go there. Yeah, let's go there. So there

00:44:52.760 --> 00:45:00.059
is, it's difficult to explain, but It's not necessarily

00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.960
paranormal, but why two of the tables in the

00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:09.679
Masonic Lodge, purpose -built Masonic Lodge have

00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:22.159
knocking on command in answer to questions from

00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:29.989
an ex -Mason or a Mason that's passed allegedly.

00:45:31.429 --> 00:45:34.909
Were they from the tables or were they from the

00:45:34.909 --> 00:45:41.510
lecterns? Two tables. There's a table in the

00:45:41.510 --> 00:45:53.369
bar area. More like oak tables. One of the people

00:45:53.369 --> 00:45:58.199
that seems to be communicating with us Believes

00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:02.280
that we're dead and that they are alive and they're

00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.699
communicating with spirits and they're from 1936

00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:14.159
Wow Exactly and um So we've been a few times

00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:18.539
now Um, so weird that you mentioned masonic lodge

00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:23.369
Yeah I knew it wouldn't be a table within the

00:46:23.369 --> 00:46:26.550
masonic hall because I've I know my way around

00:46:26.550 --> 00:46:29.510
a masonic hall and you've got the the worshipful

00:46:29.510 --> 00:46:32.949
master on his own little platform and then you've

00:46:32.949 --> 00:46:37.929
got the um senior and junior wardens um on their

00:46:37.929 --> 00:46:39.710
own lectern so I knew it wouldn't actually be

00:46:39.710 --> 00:46:42.829
within the lodge itself that's crazy yeah yeah

00:46:42.829 --> 00:46:46.210
we do have we do we we do have a lot of formations

00:46:46.210 --> 00:46:49.639
that feature the all -seeing eye and they do

00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.239
feature the Masonic, yeah, we do have a lot of

00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:57.659
Masonic type formations. So one question I was

00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:03.559
gonna ask you is we can go back to the Masonic

00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:07.119
stuff, thus no problem. But one thing that I've

00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:09.699
been thinking about and it's something that me

00:47:09.699 --> 00:47:12.980
and Ash have discussed because Ash is from up

00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:17.800
north, I'm from prime, I'm just. on the border

00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:23.360
of Wiltshire myself, is why is it that it seems

00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:26.679
to be a southern UK thing? Right, if you want

00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:30.239
to isolate it further than that. Or more Wiltshire

00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:33.380
to be fair. If you want to isolate it further

00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:39.380
than that. The tradition has been neolithic sites,

00:47:40.059 --> 00:47:46.750
tumulite, long barrows, stone circles, Silbury

00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:52.389
Hill, Neolithic significance. Okay. And a lot

00:47:52.389 --> 00:47:56.550
of people think that the reason why the circle

00:47:56.550 --> 00:47:59.809
makers are drawn to those areas is that because

00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:04.510
they are extending the traditions of our forebears

00:48:04.510 --> 00:48:08.150
that built the stone circles and exactly the

00:48:08.150 --> 00:48:11.739
monuments that you're referring to. And we think

00:48:11.739 --> 00:48:14.400
that, and because if you're into ley lines, as

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.280
you know, Avery is the most powerful point in

00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.000
Europe for intersecting ley lines. So there's

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:24.500
a contention to say that the reason why a lot

00:48:24.500 --> 00:48:26.880
of crop circle makers are drawn to those areas

00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:32.760
is because they're kind of respecting those traditions,

00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:39.320
because we think that Those circles so those

00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.920
stone circles. We think they were markers. We

00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:45.019
think that they are actually Commemorating or

00:48:45.019 --> 00:48:49.039
pointing to to their descendants to say this

00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:51.659
land is really important We're gonna commemorate

00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:54.280
this land as being important just in case you

00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.320
forget. Okay, so there's been a lot of there

00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:02.460
but There's now become a bit of a war with the

00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:04.659
farmers because the farmers are just sick year

00:49:04.659 --> 00:49:08.500
-on -year have been hit hit hit hit So therefore

00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:11.940
they're cutting them out almost this the morning

00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:15.179
after they've gone down now Okay, but we do think

00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:17.920
that there is a signal and a lot of the weird

00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.900
stuff. I'm reporting is all Exactly in these

00:49:22.900 --> 00:49:27.000
key areas around around Neolithic sites or there's

00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.280
a monument nearby. We think that there is something

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:33.019
internet interconnected, but having said that

00:49:33.130 --> 00:49:35.570
I've interviewed circle makers that have just

00:49:35.570 --> 00:49:37.489
been doing it for the art part of it, they're

00:49:37.489 --> 00:49:41.769
not spiritual at all, they're just artists and

00:49:41.769 --> 00:49:45.130
they've been profoundly changed by it because

00:49:45.130 --> 00:49:47.610
they've had strange experiences. Because I'm

00:49:47.610 --> 00:49:49.429
a spiritual person, I'm banging into this stuff,

00:49:49.610 --> 00:49:52.750
you're kind of, you know, looking for it and

00:49:52.750 --> 00:49:55.269
you know, and you're more... Unfortunately, you're

00:49:55.269 --> 00:49:57.590
more willing to interpret it as being weird,

00:49:57.630 --> 00:50:00.809
but maybe it's perhaps not weird, okay? But the

00:50:00.809 --> 00:50:04.489
thing that really appeals to me is the synchronicity.

00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:09.809
I think that there is an interconnectivity within

00:50:09.809 --> 00:50:14.570
this whole subject. And I'm not sure if we are

00:50:14.570 --> 00:50:18.530
actually communicating through the shell drake

00:50:18.530 --> 00:50:21.110
species field or whether we're communicating

00:50:22.130 --> 00:50:24.250
latently, you know, telepathically with each

00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:26.610
other, or whether there's something else at play.

00:50:26.789 --> 00:50:29.170
And I'll give you an example. Got a circle maker

00:50:29.170 --> 00:50:35.230
in my book, who had a distinct dream. Circle

00:50:35.230 --> 00:50:38.849
never been done before. Woke up thought, what

00:50:38.849 --> 00:50:41.070
the hell was that? Let's see if I can draw it

00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:43.650
out to see if we can plot it. He got his helix

00:50:43.650 --> 00:50:46.929
set out. Yeah, this is doable. phoned up his

00:50:46.929 --> 00:50:50.130
friend said, look, I've got a design here. It's

00:50:50.130 --> 00:50:53.239
never been done before. I can't explain it over

00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:56.400
the phone. How about I come round? If you like

00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:00.280
it, it's probably a three man job. Sounds like

00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:02.159
a builder, doesn't it? It's probably a three

00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:05.360
man job. We'll be around next Tuesday. So if

00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:07.860
you like it, we'll do it. And he said that on

00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:11.280
his way round to his friend's house, which was

00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:15.480
his daily commute, by the way, he had this chakra

00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:22.780
voice, external but internal. It said, look to

00:51:22.780 --> 00:51:25.639
your left. And he had no reason to look to his

00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:28.000
left because he'd seen this landscape a thousand

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.159
times, but he complied. And you can guess the

00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:34.380
rest. It was exactly the circle that he was about

00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:36.739
to go around to his friends. I mean, not just

00:51:36.739 --> 00:51:42.559
a bit, not similar. It was it, okay? Now, I contend,

00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:48.699
or I think it's open to discussion that... I

00:51:48.699 --> 00:51:50.599
hesitate, I don't want to use the word witchcraft.

00:51:50.780 --> 00:51:54.960
I think the connotations are too skewed. But

00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.920
if you think in terms of Wiccans and paganism,

00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:03.139
okay, it's argued that if you've got 20 people,

00:52:03.219 --> 00:52:06.900
up to 20 people, and they're all focused on the

00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:10.739
same sigil, if you like, if they're all focused

00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:15.239
on that same symbol, they're putting it in ancient

00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:21.050
land. The physical exertion, the exhaustion,

00:52:21.889 --> 00:52:25.969
the effort and the commitment to doing that is

00:52:25.969 --> 00:52:30.389
akin to a spell. Because no one slags off spells

00:52:30.389 --> 00:52:32.909
because they're made by humans. I think that

00:52:32.909 --> 00:52:36.250
there is something in the fact that just the

00:52:36.250 --> 00:52:41.030
intent of generating and manifesting that symbol

00:52:41.030 --> 00:52:44.789
with that level of exertion and commitment and

00:52:44.789 --> 00:52:48.579
sweat I contend that there's an argument that

00:52:48.579 --> 00:52:52.460
this guy, it bled into his dream as it was being

00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:56.599
manifested. And when it was a thing, that's when

00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:59.780
he thought he'd thought of it. And my book is

00:52:59.780 --> 00:53:04.860
full of this stuff. And my book's 190 pages long.

00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:09.539
I had to shave it. The structure led it. It was

00:53:09.539 --> 00:53:12.159
300 pages when I finished it. And I looked through

00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:14.369
it, I thought, you've done that you've done that

00:53:14.369 --> 00:53:17.190
you've done it's the same story and that's where

00:53:17.190 --> 00:53:19.730
I knew that I had vindication I thought because

00:53:19.730 --> 00:53:23.449
the stories were from unrelated teams one was

00:53:23.449 --> 00:53:26.449
from 20 years ago one's 10 years ago one's last

00:53:26.449 --> 00:53:30.190
year but it's the same themes of interconnectivity

00:53:30.190 --> 00:53:33.050
and this is where I think the whole mystery lies

00:53:33.050 --> 00:53:38.409
I wonder if we are actually communicating using

00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:41.719
something that our ancestors had that we've now

00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:43.880
had us knocked out of us in this technocratic

00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:48.659
age. Do you understand? So do you think kind

00:53:48.659 --> 00:53:51.480
of on that basis, you mentioned earlier about

00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.599
close encounters and being drawn to the tower.

00:53:55.699 --> 00:53:58.480
So these say like the non -human intelligence,

00:53:58.699 --> 00:54:01.719
whatever it is, that with this guy with the dream,

00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:04.880
do you think there's certain people that they

00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.079
sort of, before they get involved in it, they

00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:09.960
kind of target to get them involved with that

00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.860
draw. Or is it more like people that have started

00:54:12.860 --> 00:54:15.659
doing it can then become kind of more in tune

00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:18.980
with it? Certainly the second one, definitely

00:54:18.980 --> 00:54:21.380
the second one, because I know that from artists

00:54:21.380 --> 00:54:24.460
that have got no spiritual paranormal connection

00:54:24.460 --> 00:54:27.420
and they've been profoundly changed. Okay. As

00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:31.039
regards to the first one, I think that if you

00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:34.480
are If you've got predisposition to these subjects,

00:54:34.659 --> 00:54:36.980
you know this, you know this anyway. If you have

00:54:36.980 --> 00:54:39.820
predisposition to these subjects, you kind of

00:54:39.820 --> 00:54:44.360
attract it, okay? And you become aligned to it.

00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:47.820
That's why I'm very conscious. When I used to

00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:50.059
go in the field, sometimes I used to see a diagram

00:54:50.059 --> 00:54:52.760
and go, I do not like the look of that. There's

00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:54.619
no way I'm going to stick that as a tattoo in

00:54:54.619 --> 00:54:58.619
the land, okay? Because you're trying to be respectful.

00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.500
to whatever this phenomena is, whether it be

00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:08.119
us or external. So I just think that if you're

00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:11.579
aligned to this stuff, you kind of attract it.

00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:13.639
And that's why I try and keep this as positive

00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:16.280
as I can, you know? Does that answer your question?

00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:20.360
Yeah, no, definitely. And you mentioned farmers

00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:22.739
kind of wanting to get rid of it and don't want

00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:24.639
people kind of walking on the land and stuff.

00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.000
Have you ever had farmers approach you and say,

00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:31.039
I wanted to use my field. I want people to say

00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:32.559
farmers do it because they can charge people

00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:34.380
to go and visit make money and stuff. You ever

00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:36.300
had that in your experience? It does happen.

00:55:36.460 --> 00:55:38.659
It does happen. I mean, there's, there's, there's,

00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:40.480
there's crop circles that conveniently turn up

00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.400
near pubs, you know, and I'm sure that there's

00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:48.840
collusion between circle makers and, and, uh,

00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.239
and commercials since I'm sure it happens. I'm

00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:55.460
absolutely sure it happens. But like you said,

00:55:55.699 --> 00:55:57.420
people online say, it's the farmers. It's not

00:55:57.420 --> 00:56:01.000
the farmers themselves, but the circle makers,

00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:04.440
a lot of them are quite sort of prominent. They're

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.460
quite easy to get hold of, you know? So, yeah,

00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:11.699
definitely it happens. But you see, when they

00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:15.039
get angry, which, God, absolutely they should

00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:21.900
do, they're more kind of... enraged by the people

00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:24.000
that wreck their fields afterwards. It's not

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.400
so much the circle itself. It's the people that

00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:30.000
then go in and don't use the tram lines. They,

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:33.639
you know, they're called, can I swear? They're

00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:37.460
called wanker trails where people just, you know,

00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:44.440
go in for a coach load at a time. And like, I

00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:47.320
was in a field once and this farmer said, I'm

00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:50.760
sick of it. I'm sick of my fields being used

00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:55.840
as a UFO Disneyland. So that's one of the reasons.

00:56:56.059 --> 00:56:58.340
There's been a situation I heard this year, I

00:56:58.340 --> 00:57:02.130
think at Groverley Woods, where... This crop

00:57:02.130 --> 00:57:05.289
circle was there really good one and the crop

00:57:05.289 --> 00:57:08.710
and the farmer tolerated it for a few days and

00:57:08.710 --> 00:57:11.010
Then he had an argument with somebody in the

00:57:11.010 --> 00:57:13.050
formation because he sang to the guy Do you know

00:57:13.050 --> 00:57:15.630
much money this I'm losing over this and this

00:57:15.630 --> 00:57:18.369
guy said something like money is just a construct

00:57:18.369 --> 00:57:20.750
man And the black the farmer just went straight

00:57:20.750 --> 00:57:23.889
to his combine and just chopped it up. He got

00:57:23.889 --> 00:57:26.630
so enraged He just went straight and just cut

00:57:26.630 --> 00:57:30.469
it out straight away You've got to feel sorry

00:57:30.469 --> 00:57:33.130
for them. You've got to, you know. Oh, absolutely.

00:57:34.190 --> 00:57:39.650
Yeah. So you talked, going right back to the

00:57:39.650 --> 00:57:42.809
start when you were there and you saw these lights.

00:57:44.429 --> 00:57:49.849
Are there other stories, but sort of they were

00:57:49.849 --> 00:57:52.429
sort of given their sort of nod at the end of

00:57:52.429 --> 00:57:55.269
the creation to sort of say you're done. It's

00:57:55.269 --> 00:57:59.289
all good now. Has there been any reports where

00:57:59.289 --> 00:58:01.650
these crop circle makers have been in there?

00:58:01.690 --> 00:58:07.050
They've started a design and the opposite's happened

00:58:07.050 --> 00:58:11.789
where something sort of come along and told them

00:58:11.789 --> 00:58:15.329
maybe that's not the design that needs to be

00:58:15.329 --> 00:58:20.550
done. Or you shouldn't be here. There was three

00:58:20.550 --> 00:58:25.530
teams who went out on summer solstice one year.

00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:28.900
They didn't attach relevance to the date, which

00:58:28.900 --> 00:58:31.860
was pretty stupid if you're into the spiritual

00:58:31.860 --> 00:58:38.519
aspect. None of the circles got finished. For

00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:42.679
one of them, they said they'd just scored out

00:58:42.679 --> 00:58:45.199
enough of the line that they explained it really

00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:48.590
well. They said, we'd scored off. we scored out

00:58:48.590 --> 00:58:51.309
enough of a line so that it didn't look as if

00:58:51.309 --> 00:58:54.329
it was accidental okay there was enough of a

00:58:54.329 --> 00:58:56.369
line where it looked like the start of a crop

00:58:56.369 --> 00:58:59.389
circle it wasn't crop damage it wasn't a blemish

00:58:59.389 --> 00:59:02.889
and they said they were chased out of the field

00:59:02.889 --> 00:59:07.969
um they don't know what it was one of them heard

00:59:07.969 --> 00:59:13.360
a snorting sound um But the thing was, they had

00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:15.420
this, exactly what I explained to you before,

00:59:15.699 --> 00:59:19.519
before the event happened, they were petrified.

00:59:20.300 --> 00:59:23.420
And it hadn't happened. They had this, you know,

00:59:23.780 --> 00:59:25.960
like sometimes you get temperature drops before

00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:28.440
seances, that sort of thing. They all had at

00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:32.739
the same time, this terrible feeling of being

00:59:32.739 --> 00:59:38.639
absolutely petrified. And they felt something

00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:42.300
was rushing towards them. What was really interested

00:59:42.300 --> 00:59:44.559
about that was one of the team said to me and

00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:48.760
the other one he said. We heard this rushing

00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:51.179
it was near a tumor line which is like a graveyard

00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:55.659
we heard this rushing. I'm because you can't

00:59:55.659 --> 00:59:59.920
see it. It's a bit like Tarantino in Pulp Fiction

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:02.099
where he pulls away from the year what you imagine

01:00:02.099 --> 01:00:04.539
is far worse than what you say it's a hitchcock

01:00:04.539 --> 01:00:07.119
is a hitchcock trick as well it's what they don't

01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.349
show you and because you can't see it. we're

01:00:09.349 --> 01:00:16.190
more petrified. And they said, we had a rushing

01:00:16.190 --> 01:00:20.469
towards us, then it stopped. And then one of

01:00:20.469 --> 01:00:23.969
us thought, this is probably nothing to worry

01:00:23.969 --> 01:00:26.090
about, we'll carry on. And the second that you

01:00:26.090 --> 01:00:30.289
thought that, it rushed again. I know that sounds

01:00:30.289 --> 01:00:34.329
really weird, but yeah, three teams out, none

01:00:34.329 --> 01:00:36.550
of them finished their circles, all reported

01:00:36.550 --> 01:00:42.699
the same phenomenon. And yeah, that's a bad one.

01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:47.320
I know how weird that sounds, you know? And that

01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:52.739
one of them said that on another occasion, he

01:00:52.739 --> 01:00:54.639
looked to his left and thought it was a team

01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:57.360
member. Then he looked to his right and that

01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.360
was the team member. So he looked to his left

01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.329
again and he said, this thing. looked like the

01:01:04.329 --> 01:01:06.989
mold of a man rather than a man. It looked like

01:01:06.989 --> 01:01:08.969
the mold of a man that hadn't been finished.

01:01:09.590 --> 01:01:13.510
He said, I was so scared. I lunged it with the

01:01:13.510 --> 01:01:20.510
board and it powderized. But what all I'd say

01:01:20.510 --> 01:01:25.289
with accounts that are that mad is that I'm really

01:01:25.289 --> 01:01:27.829
into the ufology angle of, you know what the

01:01:27.829 --> 01:01:36.840
osfactory is. No, no, it's not. It's not as sinister

01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:40.420
as that. The Oz factor is an allusion to The

01:01:40.420 --> 01:01:44.940
Wizard of Oz when the reality that she's in in

01:01:44.940 --> 01:01:48.219
Oz is like an inverse to the one that she's got,

01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:51.219
like the upside down in a way. But what they

01:01:51.219 --> 01:01:54.599
say is that sometimes before a really batty paranormal

01:01:54.599 --> 01:02:00.110
experience, there'll be a slight glitch. The

01:02:00.110 --> 01:02:04.769
way that I explain it is, when you see CCTV on

01:02:04.769 --> 01:02:09.710
telly in empty interrogation rooms, it's an empty

01:02:09.710 --> 01:02:13.610
room and then the timer jumps forward by 10 seconds.

01:02:14.429 --> 01:02:16.610
And even though the room's still empty and the

01:02:16.610 --> 01:02:19.289
chairs are in the same place, your mind registers

01:02:19.289 --> 01:02:23.619
that something... It's just very, very, very,

01:02:23.619 --> 01:02:26.619
very slightly changed. And a lot of experiences

01:02:26.619 --> 01:02:30.119
with paranormal activity and UFO experiences,

01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:33.380
and I think it might apply to this as well, they

01:02:33.380 --> 01:02:38.079
get this glitch and it could be contended that

01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:41.380
what they're seeing is not actually what's happening,

01:02:42.219 --> 01:02:45.280
but what they perceive to be happening because

01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:48.840
something's actually wired in. To the psyche

01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:50.880
instead you understand you must have heard of

01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:53.880
that within the paranormal stuff. Yeah Yeah,

01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.780
you have not heard it explained layout, but that

01:02:56.780 --> 01:03:00.579
makes complete sense. Yeah Yeah, so with it with

01:03:00.579 --> 01:03:02.780
the batshit stuff I'm explaining that but when

01:03:02.780 --> 01:03:06.000
I read it back and go that's just mad I wonder

01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.579
sometimes it was actually because there was another

01:03:08.579 --> 01:03:12.829
example where somebody as the team was making

01:03:12.829 --> 01:03:15.150
a crop circle they heard this metallic trilling

01:03:15.150 --> 01:03:18.030
sound and that's reported in UFO reports as well

01:03:18.030 --> 01:03:21.070
sometimes and anyway so they had this metallic

01:03:21.070 --> 01:03:23.969
trilling sound the next day there was visitors

01:03:23.969 --> 01:03:27.969
to that circle and they heard this trilling sound

01:03:27.969 --> 01:03:31.550
as well and then one of them heard this sound

01:03:31.550 --> 01:03:35.030
as if when you get a radio that's not quite tuned

01:03:35.030 --> 01:03:37.550
between stations you got that horrible static

01:03:37.550 --> 01:03:42.579
he heard that static sound and He shouted to

01:03:42.579 --> 01:03:47.119
his friend, who was really quite close by, can

01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:51.260
you hear that? Not only did his friend not hear

01:03:51.260 --> 01:03:54.460
the noise, he didn't hear him shouting towards

01:03:54.460 --> 01:03:57.320
him. He said, it's like I was on a different

01:03:57.320 --> 01:04:03.139
frequency for a minute or so, you know? And you

01:04:03.139 --> 01:04:06.900
get that all the time in paranormal investigations,

01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:12.090
I'm sure. So, yeah, we've had weird, staticky

01:04:12.090 --> 01:04:15.889
sounds, weirdly, when we were at Delamere Forest,

01:04:15.989 --> 01:04:20.670
me and Ash, and we were filming a UFO documentary

01:04:20.670 --> 01:04:25.349
there. And in my headphones, I could hear all

01:04:25.349 --> 01:04:27.869
the static. It was caught on another microphone,

01:04:28.369 --> 01:04:32.590
just as some weird light anomaly went over all

01:04:32.590 --> 01:04:38.440
of us on film. We use it in our talk. So, interesting

01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:42.820
you should say that. Very strange. I think the

01:04:42.820 --> 01:04:45.639
parallels between Ufology and this subject, because

01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:49.039
you're kind of in a theatre of the strange, you

01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:52.599
know, you tend to, you might amplify it more

01:04:52.599 --> 01:04:55.179
because you're expecting weird stuff to happen,

01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:59.119
you know. And I'm very aware that we might be

01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:02.590
attributing Weirdness to these events sometimes

01:05:02.590 --> 01:05:05.989
when you're just amplifying it because i mean

01:05:05.989 --> 01:05:08.769
if you think about it i've got one i've got one

01:05:08.769 --> 01:05:11.250
account with somebody and we will get this this

01:05:11.250 --> 01:05:15.989
guy was in the gym. In the morning. Any source

01:05:15.989 --> 01:05:18.309
somebody see someone out neighbor he hasn't seen

01:05:18.309 --> 01:05:21.010
this guy for ten twenty years and he went out

01:05:21.010 --> 01:05:24.050
to him to say hello he said i got rid of it wasn't

01:05:24.050 --> 01:05:27.050
him. And then i was in a crop circle two hours

01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:32.380
later and he was there. Okay. Now, if he said

01:05:32.380 --> 01:05:34.900
he saw him in Woolworths, it wouldn't be so spooky.

01:05:35.019 --> 01:05:39.199
All right. And I said to the oddity shot podcast,

01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:42.039
I'm not sure if you were to keep a journal of

01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:43.679
strange things that happen in your life week

01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.920
to week. I'm not sure if that journal would be

01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:48.739
any different outside of the paranormal than

01:05:48.739 --> 01:05:50.440
it would be inside the paranormal. It's just

01:05:50.440 --> 01:05:52.599
you're more aware of it when you're in the paranormal,

01:05:52.719 --> 01:06:00.639
you know. Definitely. What's the kind of bigger

01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:05.500
picture of all of this. So for decades, these

01:06:05.500 --> 01:06:08.920
crop circles and potentially with this non -human

01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:11.420
intelligence that is a part of it that stops

01:06:11.420 --> 01:06:14.639
people doing it, that helps people to do it.

01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:16.500
Obviously the people involved have that kind

01:06:16.500 --> 01:06:18.000
of spiritual connection and you've got these

01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.960
neolithic sites, you've got all the spiritualism

01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:22.760
that's all connected to it. What's kind of the

01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:25.480
wider picture for the general people? What's

01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:30.639
the purpose of these circles? we don't know and

01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:32.780
that's that's the most honest answer i can give

01:06:32.780 --> 01:06:37.840
you and sometimes the message that comes is so

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:41.880
man is so mundane and it's so prosaic that you

01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:45.079
go there's nothing spooky about that there's

01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:49.099
nothing there's nothing spiritual about that

01:06:49.099 --> 01:06:53.800
that we had we have one where the team was supposed

01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:57.309
to make swallows And there was a newbie on the

01:06:57.309 --> 01:07:00.030
team and if you've got a newbie on the team that's

01:07:00.030 --> 01:07:04.230
your weakest link alright so the crop circle

01:07:04.230 --> 01:07:07.329
mentor if you like was was drilling and coaching

01:07:07.329 --> 01:07:10.630
this guy all day all day to say look you're not

01:07:10.630 --> 01:07:12.829
stomping tonight you could be doing some measuring

01:07:12.829 --> 01:07:17.030
okay because we're stretched okay so every every

01:07:17.030 --> 01:07:19.690
man has got a big job on this this is what you've

01:07:19.690 --> 01:07:21.969
got to do and he drilled him throughout the day

01:07:21.969 --> 01:07:23.989
because he thought if he gets this wrong the

01:07:23.989 --> 01:07:27.489
whole circles stuffed and they went to do the

01:07:27.489 --> 01:07:32.670
circle went to get out the car and the crop circle

01:07:32.670 --> 01:07:37.010
leader so to speak sat bolt upright as if he'd

01:07:37.010 --> 01:07:40.969
been like downloaded or something and went no

01:07:40.969 --> 01:07:46.599
no spirals we're doing spirals tonight Unlike

01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:50.699
the week bloke said I Don't know how to do spirals,

01:07:51.019 --> 01:07:52.960
you know, I've been doing this all day. You've

01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:55.920
been training me all day No, it's gonna be spirals.

01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:57.840
It's gonna be it's like you've been overwritten,

01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:03.519
you know and they did spirals and Double spiral

01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.239
you'll see it you'll find it is that I think

01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:09.760
it's 2011 you'll find it They went to the crop

01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.480
circle calf the next day because in those days

01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:15.360
Wi -Fi was in its infancy you actually the phones

01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.479
would crap you act The phone signal around here

01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:21.140
in the back of beyond is you know, it's in the

01:08:21.140 --> 01:08:24.460
sticks. It's bad shit You actually they have

01:08:24.460 --> 01:08:28.199
to go to a crop circle cafe to See if it had

01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:32.279
been reported by crop circle connector So you

01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:34.399
always go with latest circles, right? Let's see

01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:38.100
if anyone's seen it. All right so they looked

01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:41.300
at this picture right okay circles from last

01:08:41.300 --> 01:08:45.960
night there was the spirals and one of them goes

01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:50.659
that's in green crop we were working in barley

01:08:50.659 --> 01:08:54.119
it's mature they've got the filters wrong and

01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:56.539
then somebody said it's got the location wrong

01:08:56.539 --> 01:08:58.539
that's not like them these people are not on

01:08:58.539 --> 01:09:00.880
the ball have they got a bad admin day or something

01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:03.560
okay never mind okay they've got to get their

01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:08.279
act together scroll down Their circle was there

01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:12.359
the at their circle Another team had gone out

01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:17.279
and made spirals the same night exactly the same

01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:20.420
That team didn't know about them and they didn't

01:09:20.420 --> 01:09:25.479
know about them turns out years later a Friend

01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.779
of mine who's a prominent crop circle maker?

01:09:29.100 --> 01:09:31.260
This is synchronicity. This is a stuff. I don't

01:09:31.260 --> 01:09:35.170
understand picks up a guy by the side of a road

01:09:35.170 --> 01:09:38.350
he's had a breakdown or something I'll take you

01:09:38.350 --> 01:09:41.149
to the nearest garage or whatever so you can

01:09:41.149 --> 01:09:44.989
phone the AA or they're in the car of all the

01:09:44.989 --> 01:09:47.050
things they could be talking about they don't

01:09:47.050 --> 01:09:49.829
know each other from Adam one of them starts

01:09:49.829 --> 01:09:55.229
talking about crop circles and it turned out

01:09:55.229 --> 01:10:01.930
that the other team were skydivers And what they

01:10:01.930 --> 01:10:06.069
did, this was like their in -joke, because it

01:10:06.069 --> 01:10:11.029
represented the dissent of two people, okay?

01:10:12.069 --> 01:10:17.529
Now that's not spiritual, it's mundane, but it

01:10:17.529 --> 01:10:20.369
demonstrates that there's a connection, because

01:10:20.369 --> 01:10:22.569
that's too much of a coincidence for me, I'm

01:10:22.569 --> 01:10:26.689
sorry. There's a connection where someone has

01:10:26.689 --> 01:10:28.909
gone, no, it's spirals, because the other team

01:10:28.909 --> 01:10:32.390
have manifested it. you know so that's why it's

01:10:32.390 --> 01:10:36.010
hard to answer your question because sometimes

01:10:36.010 --> 01:10:40.949
you think that's so insignificant what how can

01:10:40.949 --> 01:10:44.069
there be a deeper spiritual you know meaning

01:10:44.069 --> 01:10:46.529
of life meaning to that and there was another

01:10:46.529 --> 01:10:52.729
one just as weird where a bloke drew out a design

01:10:52.729 --> 01:10:56.050
on the back of a tesco's receipt in his van because

01:10:56.050 --> 01:10:58.670
he didn't like his first design so he did this

01:10:58.670 --> 01:11:02.420
other design And he went, well, that doesn't

01:11:02.420 --> 01:11:04.520
mean anything. So if we get it wrong, no one's

01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:06.479
any the wiser. Because if you're making a mistake

01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.060
on a circle, no one's any the wiser to what it's

01:11:09.060 --> 01:11:10.640
supposed to be. He says, right, well, that doesn't

01:11:10.640 --> 01:11:13.520
mean anything, but it looks quite pretty. Let's

01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:18.460
do it. So they went out and did it. And then

01:11:18.460 --> 01:11:21.579
the next morning, I mean, it was pretty, it wasn't

01:11:21.579 --> 01:11:24.380
like a cookie cutter thing. It was really unique.

01:11:24.460 --> 01:11:26.699
It was really strange, you know, but pretty.

01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:32.899
Next day, they all meet up to get a brunch in

01:11:32.899 --> 01:11:35.640
this cafe and it was like a school dinner set

01:11:35.640 --> 01:11:37.720
up where it's all like long benches you know

01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:39.960
everyone's sitting and this bloke's having his

01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:42.659
brekkie and this bloke says budge up will ya

01:11:42.659 --> 01:11:47.359
stranger and he turned round he said I nearly

01:11:47.359 --> 01:11:51.079
choked on me bacon he said this bloke had a shirt

01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:54.500
on it was mustard color which looked like a field

01:11:54.500 --> 01:11:57.760
color he said and he had patterns that were slightly

01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:01.039
darker he said it wasn't just a little bit like

01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:04.899
it was exactly what I'd put in that field printed

01:12:04.899 --> 01:12:08.039
20 times and like you come out of that and you

01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.479
go what's the point what does all this mean it's

01:12:11.479 --> 01:12:14.260
mundane you understand that's why I can't understand

01:12:14.260 --> 01:12:16.319
about a bigger picture I can't explain a bigger

01:12:16.319 --> 01:12:19.779
picture some of this is completely mad and it

01:12:19.779 --> 01:12:22.020
doesn't have any spiritual significance but the

01:12:22.020 --> 01:12:25.699
only significance it's got is it's a connection

01:12:25.699 --> 01:12:29.090
isn't it between Whatever. And like my friend

01:12:29.090 --> 01:12:31.189
said, he said, if we'd have gone somewhere else

01:12:31.189 --> 01:12:33.630
for breakfast, would he have been there? What

01:12:33.630 --> 01:12:35.789
made him put that shirt? You start to get into

01:12:35.789 --> 01:12:38.430
the, you know, the deep stuff when you think,

01:12:38.470 --> 01:12:41.829
you know, what placed us there in the same way

01:12:41.829 --> 01:12:44.069
as the two guys in the car? What placed them

01:12:44.069 --> 01:12:47.010
there so that that crop circle mystery was sold

01:12:47.010 --> 01:12:49.510
about the spirals? Was he supposed to be there

01:12:49.510 --> 01:12:51.609
to be picked up? Why did they start talking about

01:12:51.609 --> 01:12:56.189
it? And then you start to get, you know. Wild.

01:12:56.560 --> 01:13:01.220
down the rabbit hole, you know, I wanted to quickly

01:13:01.220 --> 01:13:04.039
ask one of the most sort of famous crop circles

01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:07.500
that people talk about is the, uh, the degree

01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:10.439
alien and the sort of the binary message binary

01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:13.439
core messages in the big circle. Yeah. Well,

01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:15.880
do you have any, um, people debate whether it's

01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:19.680
real fake, uh, promotional, uh, I think you'd

01:13:19.680 --> 01:13:23.250
have any kind of information on that one. Right

01:13:23.250 --> 01:13:25.550
I try and I try to avoid these questions and

01:13:25.550 --> 01:13:30.489
the reason for that is in this subject you get

01:13:30.489 --> 01:13:32.729
a lot of people that don't stay in their lane

01:13:32.729 --> 01:13:36.529
okay they talk about the stuff that they're expert

01:13:36.529 --> 01:13:39.750
in and then they'll deviate away and then you'll

01:13:39.750 --> 01:13:42.529
go all right I've lost all respect now because

01:13:42.529 --> 01:13:43.810
you obviously don't know what you're talking

01:13:43.810 --> 01:13:46.689
about with this other thing okay so even though

01:13:46.689 --> 01:13:49.649
I do have a little bit of information on it okay

01:13:49.649 --> 01:13:53.989
it's not my place To delve into it because some

01:13:53.989 --> 01:13:57.029
of its hearsay and I've got conflicting stories

01:13:57.029 --> 01:14:00.289
and I don't know which one to trust so when crop

01:14:00.289 --> 01:14:02.069
circles are pretty in front of me I tend not

01:14:02.069 --> 01:14:05.329
to get involved in and get involved because I

01:14:05.329 --> 01:14:08.630
because I at the end of the day I wasn't there

01:14:08.630 --> 01:14:12.770
All right, and we get to hear Intel but even

01:14:12.770 --> 01:14:17.310
The Intel varies, you know, it changes from year

01:14:17.310 --> 01:14:22.100
to year, you know, so it's very very good And

01:14:22.100 --> 01:14:25.619
as I said, I'm prepared for, I've got no skin

01:14:25.619 --> 01:14:28.960
in the game with this subject. My job is just

01:14:28.960 --> 01:14:31.279
to tell you what the strangeness is with human

01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:34.359
circles. And I've got no problem at all with

01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:37.239
people believing that a lot of them aren't man

01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:39.079
-made, because that's where I was. And I could

01:14:39.079 --> 01:14:42.199
go back there next week. You've got to stay objective,

01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.260
you know? So as Quentin Tarantino would say,

01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:48.479
I refuse your question, but it's only respectfully

01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:52.159
because it's not my place. I don't know enough

01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:55.460
about it. I've got stuff on the grapevine, OK?

01:14:55.819 --> 01:14:58.439
I've heard it was... All I would tell you is

01:14:58.439 --> 01:15:00.899
I did hear it might have been a two -stage event.

01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:05.119
It might have been a two -stage event, OK? Because

01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:07.300
I think... Don't quote me, but I think it was

01:15:07.300 --> 01:15:09.239
on private land, so I don't think you could have

01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:14.319
stumbled on it by mistake, OK? And there was

01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:18.899
a film out that year as well. I don't know I

01:15:18.899 --> 01:15:21.079
look at that one I look at the galaxy the galaxy

01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:26.640
409 and the and the reply as well and I just

01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:29.859
go back to before I started making them as I

01:15:29.859 --> 01:15:32.100
said never a Premier League but I could see it

01:15:32.100 --> 01:15:35.979
being done as it was being done and then before

01:15:35.979 --> 01:15:38.319
you're in that position before you're like an

01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:41.140
expert by experience you're going there's no

01:15:41.140 --> 01:15:42.859
way this can't be people which is why I call

01:15:42.859 --> 01:15:49.399
the book it can't be people but You people are

01:15:49.399 --> 01:15:52.300
capable of making fantastic crop circles, but

01:15:52.300 --> 01:15:55.539
you but then you've got that Dichotomy of all

01:15:55.539 --> 01:15:57.539
the crap ones. They're the note. That's the new

01:15:57.539 --> 01:16:01.279
teams, you know, so There's still circus out

01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:03.819
there. We can't explain there's still hope, you

01:16:03.819 --> 01:16:08.039
know, but There's just weird shit going on with

01:16:08.039 --> 01:16:11.159
human ones, which we just don't we can't explain

01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:18.689
it, you know So with respect totally fine totally

01:16:18.689 --> 01:16:21.649
fine so um one last question for me then we'll

01:16:21.649 --> 01:16:25.470
wrap up i think is very simply uh you've been

01:16:25.470 --> 01:16:30.489
caught doing this now you get the thing is you

01:16:30.489 --> 01:16:34.289
got two things here you got the paranormal stuff

01:16:34.289 --> 01:16:39.430
to worry about okay but that's exacerbated by

01:16:39.430 --> 01:16:41.810
the fact that you've got the very real mundane

01:16:41.810 --> 01:16:45.390
risk of being caught Okay, we've had situations

01:16:45.390 --> 01:16:48.489
where we've been very very close And what we've

01:16:48.489 --> 01:16:51.550
just done is hit the deck and we were there for

01:16:51.550 --> 01:16:54.890
half an hour Couldn't move decks and boards on

01:16:54.890 --> 01:17:00.229
the floor hoping they'd go and they did So it's

01:17:00.229 --> 01:17:03.649
been close Here's a weird one for you. We saw

01:17:03.649 --> 01:17:08.409
one work. This wasn't me. There was a team I

01:17:08.409 --> 01:17:10.449
saw what they thought was torchlights coming

01:17:10.449 --> 01:17:15.100
towards them Flashlights and I go shit. It's

01:17:15.100 --> 01:17:19.119
the farmer and then another team member said

01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:22.979
No, if it was the farmer, it would be juddering

01:17:22.979 --> 01:17:24.960
because it'd be running wouldn't they that is

01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:27.920
it'd be shaking wouldn't it? That thing is stock

01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:33.680
still. All right And it was an orb and the thing

01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:39.279
with this orb was that The people that I've seen

01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:42.970
spoken to that have seen them they report the

01:17:42.970 --> 01:17:45.350
same thing which is really odd they say this

01:17:45.350 --> 01:17:50.649
these orbs tend to defy our um perception of

01:17:50.649 --> 01:17:53.989
scale and perspective so if they see at the end

01:17:53.989 --> 01:17:57.289
of the field like right at the end of the field

01:17:57.289 --> 01:18:00.970
in the daytime you'd expect from that scale that

01:18:00.970 --> 01:18:04.090
as it comes towards you by the time it gets to

01:18:04.090 --> 01:18:07.430
you it'll be the size of a car all right it retains

01:18:07.430 --> 01:18:13.109
its it retains its size From the end of the field

01:18:13.109 --> 01:18:18.050
to when it's like closer to you And this and

01:18:18.050 --> 01:18:20.529
and this this was an orb and they all saw it

01:18:20.529 --> 01:18:23.430
and they said we could kind of see that we thought

01:18:23.430 --> 01:18:25.409
it was from the end of the field it got closer

01:18:25.409 --> 01:18:29.029
and it was the same size and they said that when

01:18:29.029 --> 01:18:34.350
they Worked out what it was and they said that's

01:18:34.350 --> 01:18:38.090
no torch it kind of like did a little slug trail

01:18:38.090 --> 01:18:42.170
up towards the sky. It wasn't like a UFP going

01:18:42.170 --> 01:18:45.329
like that. It was like a snail trail and they

01:18:45.329 --> 01:18:47.449
said it was really slow and it just disappeared.

01:18:49.010 --> 01:18:51.329
So I know we went off beam then, but yeah, you

01:18:51.329 --> 01:18:54.590
do see, yeah. So that's the closest that I've

01:18:54.590 --> 01:18:59.829
been to being caught and it's not nice because

01:18:59.829 --> 01:19:03.050
you're so paranoid. You're on such high alert

01:19:03.050 --> 01:19:07.859
that I heard once of Somebody heard a chirping

01:19:07.859 --> 01:19:09.659
cricket and that's somebody else thought it was

01:19:09.659 --> 01:19:14.060
a farmer's phone going off. You're so paranoid,

01:19:14.060 --> 01:19:17.239
you know, so the answer is no, but that's the

01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:20.039
closest that we've been was that we we saw we

01:19:20.039 --> 01:19:24.760
saw a four by four rollout and park. And one

01:19:24.760 --> 01:19:28.699
of the team was using night vision. So we could

01:19:28.699 --> 01:19:33.220
see. This four by four thought it parked itself

01:19:33.220 --> 01:19:36.479
where we couldn't see it, but our team member

01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:40.119
could see the the engine glowing with his with

01:19:40.119 --> 01:19:44.619
his night vision he thinks yeah so yeah yeah

01:19:44.619 --> 01:19:48.899
i've got one i can leave i've got one to leave

01:19:48.899 --> 01:19:51.079
you with if you wouldn't mind and this is yeah

01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:53.939
yeah this is the reason i wrote the book all

01:19:53.939 --> 01:19:56.159
right because when i heard this story i went

01:19:56.159 --> 01:20:00.380
that's just because it connects everything it

01:20:00.380 --> 01:20:03.859
was a crop circle maker mate of mine very very

01:20:03.859 --> 01:20:08.199
prominent in the 90s retired now but still in

01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:14.420
kind of a media figure he was in bed one night

01:20:14.420 --> 01:20:20.399
and he was woken at midnight he said didn't feel

01:20:20.399 --> 01:20:22.840
like i was being roused it felt like i'd been

01:20:22.840 --> 01:20:26.539
woken up i've been shaken i was awake but there

01:20:26.539 --> 01:20:29.819
was nothing in the room the room was bare no

01:20:29.819 --> 01:20:31.800
indication of a presence or anything like that

01:20:32.410 --> 01:20:35.029
And he woke up with this compulsion to go and

01:20:35.029 --> 01:20:37.850
make a crop circle and it had to be a specific

01:20:37.850 --> 01:20:42.029
crop circle pattern in a specific field. Not

01:20:42.029 --> 01:20:46.329
negotiable, that pattern, that field. And he

01:20:46.329 --> 01:20:49.529
thought, there's nowhere I'd less wanna be right

01:20:49.529 --> 01:20:53.050
now than out by myself, because how am I gonna

01:20:53.050 --> 01:20:55.449
rustle up a team this time of night, thrashing

01:20:55.449 --> 01:20:58.380
away on a design? I just wanna go to sleep. And

01:20:58.380 --> 01:21:01.300
this thing would not stop. He said it was like

01:21:01.300 --> 01:21:05.140
a klaxon. This design, this field. He said that

01:21:05.140 --> 01:21:08.399
when he finally got up, it wasn't like this joyous

01:21:08.399 --> 01:21:11.079
reaction to a calling. It was like when your

01:21:11.079 --> 01:21:13.359
cat wants feeding, you've got to make it stop.

01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.119
Or a barn door going in the wind. It's the only

01:21:16.119 --> 01:21:18.880
way. You've got to get up. Couldn't rustle up

01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:22.899
a team. So he used tent pegs instead. So he got

01:21:22.899 --> 01:21:25.359
his tent pegs, got his board, got in the car,

01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:29.539
got his tape, got his rope. Drove to a field

01:21:29.539 --> 01:21:33.039
Decided he couldn't be bothered to drive anymore

01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:37.680
Got out got his kit out Went to the field was

01:21:37.680 --> 01:21:41.819
just about to start nauseous nearly throwing

01:21:41.819 --> 01:21:48.060
up felt absolutely shocking and Then this klaxon

01:21:48.060 --> 01:21:50.920
goat is going off and off and faster and faster

01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:55.600
this field this pattern So he complied he went

01:21:55.600 --> 01:22:00.300
to the right field and he said that the second

01:22:00.300 --> 01:22:03.399
that he started and he put that first notch in

01:22:03.399 --> 01:22:05.500
the crop because once that first notch is down

01:22:05.500 --> 01:22:10.060
you've got to finish it the second I got that

01:22:10.060 --> 01:22:12.699
first notch down I felt invigorated I felt like

01:22:12.699 --> 01:22:14.680
I've been plugged into something that could have

01:22:14.680 --> 01:22:16.979
been psychological but he said suddenly I wasn't

01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:20.539
tired anymore whoosh he said I got the circle

01:22:20.539 --> 01:22:23.020
done I had to keep repositioning the tempest

01:22:23.020 --> 01:22:25.760
because I didn't have anyone else with me got

01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:29.020
it done He said, it was beyond my capabilities.

01:22:29.739 --> 01:22:32.460
Loads of stuff could have gone wrong, but I felt

01:22:32.460 --> 01:22:34.500
like there was Lady Luck was on the tiller for

01:22:34.500 --> 01:22:38.239
me for this one. And as he was making it, there

01:22:38.239 --> 01:22:40.939
was this rave going on above a ridge. You couldn't

01:22:40.939 --> 01:22:43.920
see it, but there was like people, bongos, campfire,

01:22:44.199 --> 01:22:45.800
all the stuff you see at Wiltshire this time

01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:50.340
of year. Guitars, chanting, bongos, blah, blah.

01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:53.970
And he thought, right. I better be ninja here.

01:22:54.010 --> 01:22:56.590
I won't use the pen torch. What I'll do, I'll

01:22:56.590 --> 01:22:58.569
have the coat for the measurements to see where

01:22:58.569 --> 01:23:02.869
the tape is with a lighter or with no sign of

01:23:02.869 --> 01:23:04.869
light. I won't whistle or sing, which I might've

01:23:04.869 --> 01:23:08.010
done otherwise, because it's dead. I better be

01:23:08.010 --> 01:23:10.770
ninja because there's people over here and they're

01:23:10.770 --> 01:23:14.829
otherwise, I've had it. Got the circle done.

01:23:15.050 --> 01:23:17.489
By the time it was finished, it was light, because

01:23:17.489 --> 01:23:20.609
the time it took to drive there, et cetera. And

01:23:20.609 --> 01:23:23.899
he said, I couldn't risk going back to the car

01:23:23.899 --> 01:23:27.640
with the kit because it was too light so what

01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:30.739
I did I stuck it in some brambles thinking I'll

01:23:30.739 --> 01:23:32.819
come back for it tomorrow he said I pretty much

01:23:32.819 --> 01:23:35.640
fell asleep on the spot I've been unplugged and

01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:40.380
I just fell asleep on the spot woke up eight

01:23:40.380 --> 01:23:43.199
seven in the morning he said there was a group

01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:47.960
of girls going ape in this circle ape and he

01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:51.970
thought well it's good it's not that good one

01:23:51.970 --> 01:23:55.909
of these girls running up to him. She's going,

01:23:56.350 --> 01:23:59.170
it's a miracle, we can't believe it, we've got

01:23:59.170 --> 01:24:01.270
it, it's our gift. And she's grappling, it's

01:24:01.270 --> 01:24:05.789
something around her neck. And she goes, we're

01:24:05.789 --> 01:24:07.970
supplicating mother nature for this, look, she

01:24:07.970 --> 01:24:11.750
put it in the field. And it's exactly, exactly,

01:24:12.529 --> 01:24:16.590
exactly the design. And he said to them, To because

01:24:16.590 --> 01:24:18.489
he didn't want to burst the bubble and say well

01:24:18.489 --> 01:24:21.449
that was me. You know so he said two things he

01:24:21.449 --> 01:24:27.630
said Were you having a rave last night? No, he

01:24:27.630 --> 01:24:29.970
says well I had guitars and bongos and all this

01:24:29.970 --> 01:24:34.090
singing She goes now when we meditate we meditate

01:24:34.090 --> 01:24:37.569
because they were wiccans we meditate through

01:24:37.569 --> 01:24:40.909
Silently, but in conjunction holding hands that

01:24:40.909 --> 01:24:44.210
sort of stuff completely dead silent now as mad

01:24:44.210 --> 01:24:48.439
as this sounds and my friend said what i think

01:24:48.439 --> 01:24:52.300
i might have heard there was an oral representation

01:24:52.300 --> 01:24:58.359
of their incantation okay which somehow converted

01:24:58.359 --> 01:25:02.380
into sound and he said if i hadn't have heard

01:25:02.380 --> 01:25:06.460
that i'd have used the pen torch and i'd have

01:25:06.460 --> 01:25:09.319
been singing away or whatever then they'd have

01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:11.840
caught me and then they wouldn't have got their

01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:16.359
present and he said to them when did you start

01:25:16.359 --> 01:25:20.319
doing that, your incantation? And they said,

01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:22.760
well, midnight, of course, because that's when

01:25:22.760 --> 01:25:25.140
she's at her most powerful. And when I heard

01:25:25.140 --> 01:25:28.779
that story, I went, that's, everything is in

01:25:28.779 --> 01:25:31.279
that story, isn't it? You've got the interconnectivity,

01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:33.659
you've got the paganism, you've got the connection

01:25:33.659 --> 01:25:37.640
to nature, everything. And the last part of the

01:25:37.640 --> 01:25:41.220
story is that he went to his friend's house and

01:25:41.220 --> 01:25:43.340
he said, he explained, he was a circle maker,

01:25:43.619 --> 01:25:46.100
he said, i can only talk to you about this this

01:25:46.100 --> 01:25:48.680
is what happened last night and the bloke said

01:25:48.680 --> 01:25:51.579
to him you do realize don't you that if that

01:25:51.579 --> 01:25:55.659
had been a whole team because it was you by yourself

01:25:55.659 --> 01:25:58.840
you had to make it quite dinky it looked more

01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:01.539
like an amulet because it was small so it was

01:26:01.539 --> 01:26:04.739
all in there like this jigsaw puzzle that you

01:26:04.739 --> 01:26:08.159
can't explain all the pieces coming together

01:26:08.409 --> 01:26:11.369
and a crop circle maker said to me once it's

01:26:11.369 --> 01:26:13.510
a game of chess but we're not playing it with

01:26:13.510 --> 01:26:16.609
the pieces it's like it all conjoins and you're

01:26:16.609 --> 01:26:19.289
just a component in it you know and i'll leave

01:26:19.289 --> 01:26:22.569
you with that one i think because that's a cracker

01:26:22.569 --> 01:26:27.489
no that's amazing um honestly incredible a lot

01:26:27.489 --> 01:26:30.210
of this has been just so amazing to listen to

01:26:30.210 --> 01:26:33.510
and to read more about that story and many others

01:26:33.510 --> 01:26:36.720
where can our listeners find your book It came

01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:40.119
out last week. It's called it can't be people

01:26:40.119 --> 01:26:43.899
Voices from the inner circle and it's as I said

01:26:43.899 --> 01:26:45.619
to you. I'm gonna say again. I was never a premier

01:26:45.619 --> 01:26:48.359
league Just the guy to write it because I'm a

01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:51.460
journalist and an author and also Another thing

01:26:51.460 --> 01:26:54.060
to finish on I've got no problem at all with

01:26:54.060 --> 01:26:55.840
people thinking that some of these aren't man

01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:58.060
-made I just wanted to illustrate that with the

01:26:58.060 --> 01:27:00.279
man -made ones. Don't write them off. We're not

01:27:00.279 --> 01:27:04.220
tricksters They were not hoaxes, you know, I

01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:06.899
I'm still prepared to have my mind changed at

01:27:06.899 --> 01:27:09.319
any time. You know, there's still ones we can't

01:27:09.319 --> 01:27:13.119
explain. So it's out on Kindle, paperback and

01:27:13.119 --> 01:27:17.000
audiobook and it came out last week. Amazing.

01:27:17.619 --> 01:27:20.079
Well, thank you so much for your time here. Like

01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:24.619
I said, it's been it's been fascinating to talk

01:27:24.619 --> 01:27:27.359
to you. It's a pleasure. Definitely got across,

01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:31.060
I think, what you you came on to speak about

01:27:31.060 --> 01:27:37.699
and the fact that I still I still believe some

01:27:37.699 --> 01:27:39.979
of it's man -made and from what you say a lot

01:27:39.979 --> 01:27:42.859
of it's man -made which I think in my heart I

01:27:42.859 --> 01:27:45.720
know that it's all man -made I'm not gonna lie

01:27:45.720 --> 01:27:50.340
to myself but from what you said it doesn't appear

01:27:50.340 --> 01:28:00.279
that it's necessarily all man Yeah, there's elements

01:28:00.279 --> 01:28:05.279
of non -human intelligence in there. I'm not

01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:09.840
sure if this whole mystery is us latently talking

01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:13.659
to each other or if there's an NHI. I'm not sure.

01:28:14.020 --> 01:28:16.140
I've never got to the bottom of that. I don't

01:28:16.140 --> 01:28:19.579
know if it's us communicating as we used to do

01:28:19.579 --> 01:28:22.220
when we were ancients and we had all this information.

01:28:22.940 --> 01:28:25.079
or whether there's something else at play, that's

01:28:25.079 --> 01:28:27.779
the only, but I don't know. I'm hoping it's the

01:28:27.779 --> 01:28:32.619
first one. Definitely, definitely. Well, thank

01:28:32.619 --> 01:28:36.420
you so much for your time and it's been an absolute

01:28:36.420 --> 01:28:39.500
pleasure. That's mutual, take care. See you.